Worst possible news for Boeing

Page 1 of 101234>Last »
November 13th, 2018 at 7:32:57 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 934
Posts: 10989
https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/u-s-pilots-flying-737-max-werent-told-about-new-automatic-systems-change-linked-to-lion-air-crash/

The MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System) was installed in the new B737 Max is designed to activate only “during steep turns with elevated load factors and during flaps up flight at airspeeds approaching stall” and that it is “commanded by the Flight Control computer using input data from sensors and other airplane systems.”

A B737-Max-8 has a CFM International LEAP-1B, with 69 in Fan diameter and Thrust (× 2)26,786–29,317 lbf
A B737-800 has a CFM56-7B, with 61 in Fan diameter and thrust options of 24,000–26,000–27,000 lbf

The MCAS was deemed necessary because the more powerful engines made a stall more likely. It does not appear to be part of pilot training, and there are indications that it failed in the Lion Air crash repeatedly forcing the nose down since the sensor believed (incorrectly) that the plane was in a stall.
November 13th, 2018 at 7:52:05 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 57
Posts: 7300
If it is not part of the training or the footnotes.... its a danger.

As I understand it, crew could have had perfect knowledge of the situation but neither the time to react nor the strength to do anything about it.
November 13th, 2018 at 12:04:34 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 934
Posts: 10989
Quote: Fleastiff
If it is not part of the training or the footnotes.... its a danger.


It's not clear if it can even be turned off by a pilot.
November 13th, 2018 at 12:59:14 PM permalink
Dalex64
Member since: Mar 8, 2014
Threads: 3
Posts: 3017
Quote: Pacomartin
It's not clear if it can even be turned off by a pilot.


That article said "Last Tuesday, Boeing sent out a warning bulletin to all airlines operating the plane worldwide informing pilots how to cut off the system if it malfunctions." and "Michaelis’ message told American pilots to familiarize themselves with the procedure for cutting off that system."
"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan
November 13th, 2018 at 4:02:18 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 934
Posts: 10989
Quote: Dalex64
That article said "Last Tuesday, Boeing sent out a warning bulletin to all airlines operating the plane worldwide informing pilots how to cut off the system if it malfunctions." and "Michaelis’ message told American pilots to familiarize themselves with the procedure for cutting off that system."


Well they offered no training on the system before the accident, so the Lion Air pilots did not know how to do it.
November 14th, 2018 at 11:00:41 PM permalink
Ayecarumba
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 89
Posts: 1742
I wonder if similar "Failsafe" systems were put on other Boeing models without informing pilots... like the Malaysian 777 that went missing?
November 15th, 2018 at 4:08:23 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 934
Posts: 10989
It makes you wonder what could happen to these automated features on cars? They have those nice commercials showing a car braking by itself and protecting a family with kids, but I picture a car slamming on the brakes while you are driving at 60 mph.
November 15th, 2018 at 9:00:19 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 57
Posts: 7300
Probably not much different than a fly by wire system suddenly dumping the pilots into Alternate Law or that refresh system on the first electronic roulette systems that allowed 500 dollar phantom bets.
November 21st, 2018 at 2:47:01 AM permalink
Fleastiff
Member since: Oct 27, 2012
Threads: 57
Posts: 7300
Boeing cancelled its group telephone call to airlines that was to discuss the MCAS.
March 10th, 2019 at 10:16:51 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 934
Posts: 10989
Quote: Pacomartin
The MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System) was installed in the new B737 Max is designed to activate only “during steep turns with elevated load factors and during flaps up flight at airspeeds approaching stall” and that it is “commanded by the Flight Control computer using input data from sensors and other airplane systems.”

A B737-Max-8 has a CFM International LEAP-1B, with 69 in Fan diameter and Thrust (× 2) 26,786–29,317 lbf
A B737-800 has a CFM56-7B, with 61 in Fan diameter and thrust options (× 2) of 24,000–26,000–27,000 lbf

The MCAS was deemed necessary because the more powerful engines made a stall more likely. It does not appear to be part of pilot training, and there are indications that it failed in the Lion Air crash repeatedly forcing the nose down since the sensor believed (incorrectly) that the plane was in a stall.


Only 5 months after the Lion Air crash a brand new B737-Max-8 operated by Ethiopian Airlines crashed minutes after take-off on a clear day.

Only Delta has not ordered the B737-Max jets

US Airlines orders—deliveries
Southwest Airlines 280—31
American Airlines 100—22
United Airlines 136—12
Alaska Airlines 32—0

So far 350 deliveries have been made of 737 MAX vs 687 of the A320neo family.
Page 1 of 101234>Last »