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Worst possible news for Boeing
| November 13th, 2018 at 7:32:57 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | https://www.seattletimes.com/business/boeing-aerospace/u-s-pilots-flying-737-max-werent-told-about-new-automatic-systems-change-linked-to-lion-air-crash/ The MCAS (Maneuvering Characteristics Augmentation System) was installed in the new B737 Max is designed to activate only “during steep turns with elevated load factors and during flaps up flight at airspeeds approaching stall” and that it is “commanded by the Flight Control computer using input data from sensors and other airplane systems.” A B737-Max-8 has a CFM International LEAP-1B, with 69 in Fan diameter and Thrust (× 2)26,786–29,317 lbf A B737-800 has a CFM56-7B, with 61 in Fan diameter and thrust options of 24,000–26,000–27,000 lbf The MCAS was deemed necessary because the more powerful engines made a stall more likely. It does not appear to be part of pilot training, and there are indications that it failed in the Lion Air crash repeatedly forcing the nose down since the sensor believed (incorrectly) that the plane was in a stall. |
| November 13th, 2018 at 7:52:05 AM permalink | |
| Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | If it is not part of the training or the footnotes.... its a danger. As I understand it, crew could have had perfect knowledge of the situation but neither the time to react nor the strength to do anything about it. |
| November 13th, 2018 at 12:04:34 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
It's not clear if it can even be turned off by a pilot. |
| November 13th, 2018 at 12:59:14 PM permalink | |
| Dalex64 Member since: Mar 8, 2014 Threads: 3 Posts: 3687 |
That article said "Last Tuesday, Boeing sent out a warning bulletin to all airlines operating the plane worldwide informing pilots how to cut off the system if it malfunctions." and "Michaelis’ message told American pilots to familiarize themselves with the procedure for cutting off that system." "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not to his own facts." Daniel Patrick Moynihan |
| November 13th, 2018 at 4:02:18 PM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Well they offered no training on the system before the accident, so the Lion Air pilots did not know how to do it. |
| November 14th, 2018 at 11:00:41 PM permalink | |
| Ayecarumba Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 89 Posts: 1744 | I wonder if similar "Failsafe" systems were put on other Boeing models without informing pilots... like the Malaysian 777 that went missing? |
| November 15th, 2018 at 4:08:23 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 | It makes you wonder what could happen to these automated features on cars? They have those nice commercials showing a car braking by itself and protecting a family with kids, but I picture a car slamming on the brakes while you are driving at 60 mph. |
| November 15th, 2018 at 9:00:19 AM permalink | |
| Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | Probably not much different than a fly by wire system suddenly dumping the pilots into Alternate Law or that refresh system on the first electronic roulette systems that allowed 500 dollar phantom bets. |
| November 21st, 2018 at 2:47:01 AM permalink | |
| Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | Boeing cancelled its group telephone call to airlines that was to discuss the MCAS. |
| March 10th, 2019 at 10:16:51 AM permalink | |
| Pacomartin Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 1068 Posts: 12569 |
Only 5 months after the Lion Air crash a brand new B737-Max-8 operated by Ethiopian Airlines crashed minutes after take-off on a clear day. Only Delta has not ordered the B737-Max jets US Airlines orders—deliveries Southwest Airlines 280—31 American Airlines 100—22 United Airlines 136—12 Alaska Airlines 32—0 So far 350 deliveries have been made of 737 MAX vs 687 of the A320neo family. |