First Principles
February 17th, 2020 at 12:13:17 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
But you forgive them, no conditions, you don't hold it against them. You don't deprive them, you don't punish them later like god does. This is why unconditional love doesn't exist, it's a fantasy. Even a parents love has it's limits. Everybody has a point they get to with love that says 'no more'. A god loving you unconditionally is not a useful god. It means you wouldn't even have to know of his existence because you can do no wrong. There are no conditions attached that you can violate and fall out of grace with him.
What does this or any of the passages you quoted have to do with gods love having no conditions attached to it. You can still love an offspring and want nothing to do with them, you know. Happens all the time. I still love a woman I dated in the 70's, but I don't want to be around her. Unconditional love is a selling technique, it doesn't exist in reality. All love has strings attached to it. Especially your gods love. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
February 17th, 2020 at 12:18:29 PM permalink | |
aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 |
Never, you are 100% correct, I am changing my viewpoint and will now worship your "God" |
February 17th, 2020 at 12:28:15 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Only if you change the meaning of the word 'logic'. Just like you changed the meaning of 'proof'. With your new word meanings, anything is possible. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
February 17th, 2020 at 4:50:42 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I didn't change anything. I think the type of 'proof' you are asking for in regards to God is something that you would never ask for anything else in your life. You believe all kinds of falsities about the Church that you accept without even getting close to proof. You believe that there is no God without proof. You believe the brakes in your car will work and the food you eat is not poisoned without proof. Absolute proof is something we find in the abstract world of mathematics and logical syllogisms. I think we both have the same definition of proof but you think it is necessary to believe in something and I do not. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
February 17th, 2020 at 4:54:39 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I'm alarmed that you think punishment and consequences mean that you don't love someone. Where you never disciplined as a kid? In a school I worked at we had kids purposely getting in trouble just so they could be reminded that someone loved them and cared about them because they could get away with anything at home. They didn't feel loved. Unconditional love is not permission to take advantage of someone and do whatever you want, even things that hurt yourself and others.
Read them and you will see. Love with no strings attached. Read in particular what happens when the prodigal son returns home. What does the father do? There is your unconditional love and an image of God's love. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
February 17th, 2020 at 8:24:05 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Not at all. Proof is proof, it's irrefutable. Your 'proof' consists of arguments and theories built around the arguments with a lot of hope and wishful thinking thrown in. Most of your 'proof' consists of anecdotal unverifiable testimonies of people who claim a god experience. Useless as proof of anything other than a vivid imagination. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
February 17th, 2020 at 8:39:35 PM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 | Can you name anything in your life that you believe for which you have irrefutable proof? “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
February 17th, 2020 at 8:42:07 PM permalink | |
Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25010 |
Did you even read what I wrote? You can love an offspring and not want to be in the same room with them. That is love because you have no choice. it's not all forgiving non judging unconditional love. Jesus is supposedly god: "Jesus himself said that receiving his love is based on condition, specifically the condition of following his commandments (example at John chapter 15 verses 10 and 14). Other conditions are found throughout the Bible"
Actually there are Xtians who argue both sides, conditions and no conditions. "The term unconditional love is not explicitly used in the Bible, and advocates for God's conditional or unconditional love, using different passages or interpretations to support their point of view, are both encountered. " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unconditional_love#Religious_perspective As I said before, you're taking passages and making them say what you want them to say. You can make them say whatever you want, this is why the Bible is so unreliable as proof of anything. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
February 18th, 2020 at 8:12:01 AM permalink | |
aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 | A "true believer" friend of mine sent this to me I stopped arguing with him However, I also proposed the old "Can God make a rock that is to heavy for him to lift?" and he referred me to this article which made me LOL even more https://crossexamined.org/can-god-create-a-rock-so-heavy-that-he-cannot-lift-it/ |
February 18th, 2020 at 11:25:58 AM permalink | |
FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
“It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |