The Coronavirus thread

Quote: AZDuffman

Yes, parents of illegal aliens who brought it into the USA.

Regardless of such nationalistic comment. Nationalistic not in an admirable way! It wasn't my first chosen word.

The topic replied to was directly about herd immunity. Establish herd immunity and wherever the infection is seeded from is totally irrelevant, whether its a few illegal immigrants, or from a disembarking cruise ship.

With herd immunity, epidemics fizzle out. Without herd immunity, they run amok. 'Fizzle out' kills less, does less harm, though you need to stay on top of it. The third option of just trying to suppress epidemics is a constant fire fight.

Herd immunity can be from the majority getting infected or majority getting vaccinated. Anyone with any sense would see the choice and take the easy and safer option, or stay the hell in his bunker. Until herd immunity kicks in, the shrinking minority of uninfected vaccine hold-outs are just getting more and more at risk.

I laugh at the absurdity of taking a Republican pushed agenda of sticking it to the libs by denouncing vaccines, and often denying that the GOP has vocal anti-vaxxers pushing for non-compliance. This is cult behaviour at it's most extreme.

Oh hum. Darwin wins eventually.

Quote: terapined

Anti vaxers with a national TV platform is news.
It's one of those news items that's reported on
Don't need to watch Fox to know that

I, for one, am fascinated by Fox News’s apparent goal of killing off their viewers.

Maybe they’re just trying to do our country a favor? For once.

Quote: OnceDear

Regardless of such nationalistic comment. Nationalistic not in an admirable way! It wasn't my first chosen word.

It is a factual comment. Measles has been unheard of in the USA since the 1970s. But an open border allowing unvaxed people in and you have an outbreak. Or do you somehow think the measles just sat around waiting for decades?

Don't thank me, thank the open-borders crowd.

Quote: ams288

I, for one, am fascinated by Fox News’s apparent goal of killing off their viewers.

Maybe they’re just trying to do our country a favor? For once.

Part of the problem is these doofuses don’t know the elements of real malicious government plots and a legitimate public health initiative.

And I’m not going to help wise them up any longer. They’ve been given tons of information about what’s going on and why many times over.

Quote: AZDuffman

It is a factual comment. Measles has been unheard of in the USA since the 1970s. But an open border allowing unvaxed people in and you have an outbreak. Or do you somehow think the measles just sat around waiting for decades?

Don't thank me, thank the open-borders crowd.

If the borders were actually open, so no incentive to try to sneak in, we could simply make MMR an entry requirement.

Quote: OnceDear

Why, Because even with the best vaccines, there are many of us that cannot fully or even partially benefit or even partake: Cancer patients, immune compromised for an assortment of reasons. There are many of them, including my wife: Including many children that can get infected and become infectious. Those folk need to continue with what other defenses they have, which means principally to self isolate. While antivaxers circulate, the virus circulates and prospers, albeit mostly among the fools.

And while it circulates it gets more chances to mutate. We see that already. It's almost inevitable that one or more new strains will evolve which will bypass our existing vaccines. Then we are ALL back in the 5hit.

So. We let the fools take their chances. We know there are many fools and many of those will need hospitalisation, and time off work. Did your countries health system not get stressed to the point where other routine treatments were postponed indefinitely? Antivaxxers will cause more of the same.

Personally, I can go with the 'let them die' approach. But let them die at home, refused treatment. Not a comfortable standpoint, but needs must.

Why do you have cancer patients listed above? "The government is rolling out a 3-phase plan to vaccinate people in Ontario. People with cancer can get the vaccine in Phase 2 of the plan. People with cancer should get the COVID-19 vaccine as soon as they are able."

Ditto on immune compromised. "Public health experts and doctors want most people with autoimmune conditions, who are immunocompromised, or who take immunosuppressant medication to get a COVID-19 vaccine."

You are no different than an antivaxer just picking and choosing your own rules on your own comfort level.

Quote: Gandler

Same reason we obsess over the measles vaccine and the smallpox vaccine etc.

Sorry, it isn't the same reason.
Measles & Smallpox vaccines are not being delivered on an emergency only/not completely tested basis.
These vaccines are definitively safe for the long term.
We don't know that with Covid Vaccine.
I believe it is safe, but until FDA approves it for non-emergency use, this is an experimental vaccine.
Everyone evaluates their risk factors of bad outcomes of getting infected against potential/unknown long term risks of vaccine
And makes a decision that is right for them.
If I had a child under 18, based on the real stats/chances of bad outcome if catching the virus,
I would be waiting on getting them vaccinated until we have more long data on the vaccine.
Again, you're protected if you're vaccinated according to the "science".
All the fear mongering over variants has been wrong to this point.
How much mutation has happened over the last 18 months?
If we don't have a problem with a variant beating the vaccine at this point,
I highly doubt we'll get one. Just like you highly doubt there are any long term risks with the vaccine.
So get out of people's lives, get your vaccine so you're protected & move on with your life.
Herd immunity will be achieved through the combination of vaccines & the non-immunized recovering.
If you can't get the vaccine, you should stay in lock down. You're vulnerabilities are not the public at large's problem.

Quote: missedhervee

For me personally I am vax vexed because my son, a conservative, refuses to get vaccinated.

Is his sole reason for not getting vaccinated because he votes conservative?
My guess is he is young & healthy and he looks as the 1 in 10,000 chance of a bad outcome post infection
Does the math and says, I'll wait until we get more long term data on the vaccine.
If he really is basing his decision on politics, that would be vexing.
But you are pretty logical with your posts, my guess is he is a reasonably smart kid based on his genetics.

Quote: Mission146

If the borders were actually open, so no incentive to try to sneak in, we could simply make MMR an entry requirement.

If it did we would be called racist. USA once prohibited HIV positive entry, until the SJWs got on the feds and they relaxed it. We do not even prohibit pregnant women entering which allows for birth tourism.

Quote: kenarman

Why do you have cancer patients listed above? "The government is rolling out a 3-phase plan to vaccinate people in Ontario. People with cancer can get the vaccine in Phase 2 of the plan. People with cancer should get the COVID-19 vaccine as soon as they are able."

Ditto on immune compromised. "Public health experts and doctors want most people with autoimmune conditions, who are immunocompromised, or who take immunosuppressant medication to get a COVID-19 vaccine."

You are no different than an antivaxer just picking and choosing your own rules on your own comfort level.

Hardly the whole story.

Quote:

While 98.1% of the health care workers produced antibodies after vaccination, only 37.2% of the vaccinated solid organ transplant patients were positive for antibodies; 54.7% of the blood cancer patients; 82.4% of those with solid tumor cancer and 83.8% of patients with autoimmune disorders. In contrast, 94.6% of patients with HIV made antibodies.


Among patients with solid organ transplants, lung transplant patients had a particularly poor response to vaccination, with only 22.2% producing antibodies. Liver transplant patients fared best, with 60.6% of study participants producing antibodies after vaccination. Patients who received their transplant less than a year ago were less likely to respond to vaccination than those transplanted earlier.


In addition, cancer patients receiving radiation therapy and patients taking certain medications—such as antimetabolites for transplant and anti-CD20 monoclonal antibodies for autoimmune disorders—were more likely not to produce antibodies after COVID-19 vaccination.

https://www.upmc.com/media/news/063021-haidar-covics-interim-medrxiv