The Biden Presidency 2021

Quote: Mission146

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/24/republicans-2020-election-poll-trump-biden

53% makes a majority. That poll was taken in May, mind you. I'm not saying that the poll was not skewed to produce that result (how would I know?), but based on people who I have spoken to...I would say that it's been roughly 50/50 amongst Right-leaners that there was enough in the way of fraud that was such to change the result.

I do agree that almost every election almost certainly has non-zero, though negligible, fraud. As Gandler and I were discussing, that's why I favor Voter ID...at least takes away one point of b$%^ing from whoever would claim an election was outright stolen.

Im in awe of what Putin has done to this country via Trump

Quote: terapined

Im in awe of what Putin has done to this country via Trump

You will have to spell it out for me because I have no idea what that might be.

So president Poopypants was asked today why his party didn't win in Virginia. Of course it's Trump's fault. Mr Poopy says too many conservatives who still believe in Trump's failed policies turned out to volt. Says the guy who is hip deep in failed policies. All the Dem pundits are saying this was Trump driven election. Even though Trump never stumped in Virginia for the winner And Youngkin never mentioned Trump. It was the Democrats that made it a Trump driven the election because Terry McAuliffe mentioned Donald Trump every time he opened his mouth. Even Poopypants did it today. They are absolutely obsessed with Trump.

Quote: Mission146

Perhaps not, but it at least would get the job done for folks who want to vote. As you mentioned, I don't think voter fraud is a pervasive thing, but there's no real reason not to fix what little fraud may actually exist and to have secure elections certainly seems like a defensible pursuit. It would also shut the GOP up and, aside from arguing about ballot-counting or the concept of mail-in voting existing to begin with, would also go some way to causing an inability to even perpetuate the myth of widespread election fraud. In short, there's no compelling reason not to do these things, assuming most things are on the up and up anyway.

Again, I don't have a major problem with it. But, its just a rabbit hole. Once you grant that, next it will be some other issue. Its a deflection issue used by a party that the vast majority of Americans are fleeing.

You know how you guys say mandatory background checks for guns is a bad idea because it is just a slide into more restrictions for something that is a relatively nonexistent problem? Well voting crimes are even far less common that improper gun sales being approved.... So yeah, I don't have a huge problem with mandatory background checks or of voter ID, neither stop a real problem.

Anyway, do you really think that the Republicans will stop complaining about election fraud in cities with changing demographics (shifting blue) even if all of their fantasy voting regulations go in place in 100% of States and they keep losing? This is why I really don't care about appeasing them. Again, I have no problem with it (I live with it now), but its not an issue I am going to care about, and I am certainly not going to bat for them on it....

Quote: Mission146

For one thing, you would have to have an ID that has not expired. I don't think that you have done anything here other than made a better case against mail-in voting (for all) than most Conservatives do.

Well that is the argument that people would make if they are being honest, anything else is just silly. This is the only tangible security issue with mail in ballots.

Quote: Mission146

Well, most people wanted Trump to be impeached before he even set foot in the Oval Office. The intent to do that was there and you cannot tell me otherwise. They telegraphed the hell out of it. They'd have taken any infraction that even had a remote shot of being seen as enough.

I think that you are getting mixed up. A solid majority of Americans (across all parties) wanted Trump impeached the second time (after the insurrection attempt). This was not the case for the first impeachment. And, about 25% say he did nothing wrong (oddly similar numbers to those who think the election was rigged or fraudulent. I wonder if there is crossover?....)

Quote: Mission146

Anyway, I do know that the Cult of Trump is strong and as much as these people would encourage, "Thinking for yourself," they are mostly incapable of doing that. They'll simply think whatever Trump tells them they should think.

Of course. And, Trump is unique in this regard. He has power over the party like no other President in history (he can literally exile people even out of office). It is Trump's party. There is no Democrat equivalence in the modern world. Even Obama while in power had endless Dems push back on him, there was no cult. But, almost every Republican worships Trump like it is their fulltime job, and will not even concede basic facts (that are beyond dispute) about him or his history... Its the kind of power no other President (in America) has, and it should alarm people.

Quote: Mission146

I was consistent. When you had the Portland thing, I said go in and shoot them all for treason. Make an announcement that they had X amount of time to get out of their little whatever zone, and anyone who was still there at the time gets shot. I said the same thing about the Capitol Insurrection, or whatever you might want to call it. Announce that they have fifteen minutes to get out of there, and then when time has expired, go in and shoot whoever is in there that's not supposed to be there.

As far as the riots were concerned, I don't believe any of those crimes call for summary execution, but they definitely need to get in there and arrest some folks.

I fully agree.

Quote: Mission146

The first Impeachment was capricious and farcical. They should be embarrassed if, for no other reason, that they couldn't have found something better than that. They pretty much Impeached him for doing what I would pretty much assume all politicians do.

Well, most politicians running for office would not ask Russia to hack an opponents email on live TV. I mean this is pretty unheard of.

Quote: Mission146

Nixon would have been removed. In fact, Nixon would not have resigned except for the fact that they basically went up to him and told him he was almost definitely going to be removed. The second Trump Impeachment may have been warranted, in legal theory, but in practicality was nothing more than pointless symbolism.

Its not, because if convicted there are ways for part of the conviction to bar you from holding office or Federal employment again.

In any case holding people responsible is never bad. That is the same argument lazy leaders make when they refuse to write up employees who are retiring in a few days while constantly messing up or being late. Does it accomplish anything directly? No, but it sets the standard for leadership and rules. However, this is even more extreme, it would be like somebody brining a gun into work and threatening people who "wronged him" a week before retirement, and their leadership saying, well it was pretty bad, but we only have to deal with him for another week so what is the point?

Quote: Mission146

I mean, you are required to be born an American citizen, so Trump is within his legal rights to challenge Obama's legitimacy on those grounds...even if the challenge is profoundly stupid. I'm not even sure, even if the birth certificate could not be found, how you would go about proving the opposite.

Come on you know why he did this. I don't even think he believed it. He is smart in one area and that is popularity. The "birther" stuff was his entry into the conspiracy market of America. He saw its a segment of America he could dominate (and to be fair he was right).

Even after Obama released first his standard birth certificate and then his long form birth certificate, Trump refused to acknowledge he was a citizen. This was pure dog-whistling to his new base to build an image, and I think you know this....

Anyway Trump refused to release his birth certificate, college transcripts, and tax returns (which is the norm, other two things aside). All of which he expected from Obama, so he is just a massive hypocrite (and most likely not as rich as he claims, and probably had barely passing grades if classmates are to be believed, I doubt he was "top of his class", if he was he would release, again not a major issue until he bashes McCain for being near the bottom of his class at a much harder University to even get in, again he is basically textbook hypocrite).

Quote: Evenbob

So president Poopypants was asked today why his party didn't win in Virginia. Of course it's Trump's fault. Mr Poopy says too many conservatives who still believe in Trump's failed policies turned out to volt. Says the guy who is hip deep in failed policies. All the Dem pundits are saying this was Trump driven election. Even though Trump never stumped in Virginia for the winner And Youngkin never mentioned Trump. It was the Democrats that made it a Trump driven the election because Terry McAuliffe mentioned Donald Trump every time he opened his mouth. Even Poopypants did it today. They are absolutely obsessed with Trump.

The hell are they talking about? Wasn’t s*** had anything to do with Trump supporters—Independents swung massively to Youngkin compared to the percentage of Independents that voted for Trump. Trump didn’t effectuate anything in Virginia, in fact, basically the opposite of that happened.

Quote: Mission146

The hell are they talking about? Wasn’t s*** had anything to do with Trump supporters—Independents swung massively to Youngkin compared to the percentage of Independents that voted for Trump. Trump didn’t effectuate anything in Virginia, in fact, basically the opposite of that happened.

Of course that's what happened. But like I said they are absolutely obsessed with Donald Trump. It's almost like a mental illness. It's like in the old days of superstition when they blamed the devil for everything. If your crops dried up, if your cow stopped giving milk, if you had a stillborn baby, you blame the devil. Democrats blame Donald Trump for anything and everything. When Biden went to Virginia twice and stumped for Terry McAuliffe he mentioned Donald Trump's name dozens of times. Like McAuliffe was running against Trump.

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Again, I don't have a major problem with it. But, its just a rabbit hole. Once you grant that, next it will be some other issue. Its a deflection issue used by a party that the vast majority of Americans are fleeing.

You know how you guys say mandatory background checks for guns is a bad idea because it is just a slide into more restrictions for something that is a relatively nonexistent problem? Well voting crimes are even far less common that improper gun sales being approved.... So yeah, I don't have a huge problem with mandatory background checks or of voter ID, neither stop a real problem.

Anyway, do you really think that the Republicans will stop complaining about election fraud in cities with changing demographics (shifting blue) even if all of their fantasy voting regulations go in place in 100% of States and they keep losing? This is why I really don't care about appeasing them. Again, I have no problem with it (I live with it now), but its not an issue I am going to care about, and I am certainly not going to bat for them on it....

Yeah, but if you're the Democrats and you concede Voter ID, then you can at least advance the position that you have already tried to compromise. Democrats seem to be more opposed to Voter ID than anything, because supposedly, getting an ID is difficult for some people to do. While I submit that it takes more than absolutely zero effort, it's not difficult and I don't buy the argument that it's prohibitively expensive.

Even if it were expensive, then just set up a non-profit that helps the people who allegedly can't afford a non-operator ID get one.

Anyway, I don't say mandatory background checks for guns is a bad idea. I wouldn't consider my stance a strong one, but I'm slightly in favor and also think it should be left to the individual states.

The original Constitutional interpretation of the Second Amendment didn't separate the right to bear arms from a well-regulated militia (in-state) anyway, with some once arguing that is specifically what the Second meant. I'm not sure that I agree with that, but I also don't think that the Second was meant to imply that all weapons for citizens are on the table unconditionally, either.

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Well that is the argument that people would make if they are being honest, anything else is just silly. This is the only tangible security issue with mail in ballots

Yeah, but it's also a pretty strong argument.

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I think that you are getting mixed up. A solid majority of Americans (across all parties) wanted Trump impeached the second time (after the insurrection attempt). This was not the case for the first impeachment. And, about 25% say he did nothing wrong (oddly similar numbers to those who think the election was rigged or fraudulent. I wonder if there is crossover?....)

Impeachment was definitely warranted the second time around; I just saw it as pointless symbolism...but that doesn't mean it's not the sort of thing that a POTUS should be Impeached for. When I was talking about telegraphing Impeaching him and taking any spurious reason they could get, I was referring to the first Impeachment.

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Of course. And, Trump is unique in this regard. He has power over the party like no other President in history (he can literally exile people even out of office). It is Trump's party. There is no Democrat equivalence in the modern world. Even Obama while in power had endless Dems push back on him, there was no cult. But, almost every Republican worships Trump like it is their fulltime job, and will not even concede basic facts (that are beyond dispute) about him or his history... Its the kind of power no other President (in America) has, and it should alarm people.

Personally, I don't find it too alarming as it confirms what I already suspected about the Evangelical Right...basically, that many Christians only pretend to have any standards whatsoever for morality and decorum.

Actually, it kind of stands to reason why they would want to Legislate morality, if you really think about it...without morality being enforced upon them, some of them are simply fundamentally without morals or principles of any kind, except those that they have for others. With that, it stands to reason that so many seem to think that a person without a god would be completely amoral...they can't separate the two.

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Well, most politicians running for office would not ask Russia to hack an opponents email on live TV. I mean this is pretty unheard of.

Moot. He wasn't Impeached for that.

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Its not, because if convicted there are ways for part of the conviction to bar you from holding office or Federal employment again.

In any case holding people responsible is never bad. That is the same argument lazy leaders make when they refuse to write up employees who are retiring in a few days while constantly messing up or being late. Does it accomplish anything directly? No, but it sets the standard for leadership and rules. However, this is even more extreme, it would be like somebody brining a gun into work and threatening people who "wronged him" a week before retirement, and their leadership saying, well it was pretty bad, but we only have to deal with him for another week so what is the point?

That's correct. There can be a separate ruling that bars an individual from holding further office if they are removed in the first place, but someone can also be removed without a barring from any Federal office. That said, I still maintain that it was pointless symbolism because it was never going to happen anyway. It would be political suicide for Republican Senators, though I think they may have done it if something along the same sort of lines had happened two years prior.

Anyway, I also see your point, but it seems that the second time around just fanned the flames of an already quite healthy fire.

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Come on you know why he did this. I don't even think he believed it. He is smart in one area and that is popularity. The "birther" stuff was his entry into the conspiracy market of America. He saw its a segment of America he could dominate (and to be fair he was right).

Even after Obama released first his standard birth certificate and then his long form birth certificate, Trump refused to acknowledge he was a citizen. This was pure dog-whistling to his new base to build an image, and I think you know this....

Anyway Trump refused to release his birth certificate, college transcripts, and tax returns (which is the norm, other two things aside). All of which he expected from Obama, so he is just a massive hypocrite (and most likely not as rich as he claims, and probably had barely passing grades if classmates are to be believed, I doubt he was "top of his class", if he was he would release, again not a major issue until he bashes McCain for being near the bottom of his class at a much harder University to even get in, again he is basically textbook hypocrite).

Of course he didn't believe it, at least, I don't think he did. I'm simply defending that he was within his legal right to challenge that.

The funny thing about the conspiracy market is the fact that, for people who supposedly question everything, that they are willing to believe anything.

Hypocrisy is never a surprise to me, doesn't matter who or what side is being discussed. I tend to agree that, were his transcript immaculate, he would have been more than happy to release it.


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Quote: Gandler

Well, most politicians running for office would not ask Russia to hack an opponents email on live TV. I mean this is pretty unheard of.
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After face-to-face talks with Russian President Vladimir Putin, Mr Trump contradicted US intelligence agencies and said there had been no reason for Russia to meddle in the vote.

Mr Putin reiterated that Russia had never interfered in US affairs.

Hey, it's completely forgivable. (by his supporters)

Hey, do you think if we put the rest of Trump's wall in the infrastructure bill we'd get support from a couple arch conservatives. (I mean, we can let it crumble after we build it)

What else do they want? All white neighborhoods. Some confederate flags?

Quote: rxwine

Hey, do you think if we put the rest of Trump's wall in the infrastructure bill we'd get support from a couple arch conservatives. (I mean, we can let it crumble after we build it)

What else do they want? All white neighborhoods. Some confederate flags?

You'll probably have to also add a rider that makes February 8th a Federal Holiday.

I had a much better joke than that, but it's on pretty shaky ground. I might tell it to you if we ever meet. It should only offend Southern White Evangelicals, but you never know.