Why aren't battery power vehicles cheaper?

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April 21st, 2021 at 2:14:20 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1065
Posts: 12559
The Mini is the cheapest EV on sale in the US at the moment. The battery is a mere 32.6-kWh, which is the smallest in any vehicle so it can't cost more than $500.
Yet the Electric car is $3500 more than it's ICE counterpart.

2021 MINI PRICE STARTS AT:
$22,400 Hardtop 2 Door Cooper model. 134 HORSEPOWER (1.5 liter) Range: 360 miles
$26,400 Hardtop 2 Door Cooper S model. 189 HORSEPOWER (2.0 liter) Range: 348 miles - 33 gallons/1000mi
$29,900 Hardtop 2 Door Cooper SE model. 181 HORSEPOWER Range: 110 miles 3,153 lbs
April 22nd, 2021 at 3:51:18 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1065
Posts: 12559
I should think that this would be of more interest. In contrast the UK has announced that they will ban the sale of ICE vehicles in 2030, plug-in hybrids by 2035, and ban registration by 2040. The UK has roughly 20% of it's vehicles some kind of hybrid or battery vehicles which is far ahead of California. Of course gasoline is over $6/gallon in the UK.

Why is CA so ambitious? How many people will try and register in NV and drive in CA?

Note that zero-emission vehicles do not include the latest plug-in hybrid that let's you drive up to 42 miles on pure electric, and then use power assisted gasoline driving for longer trips using 20 gallons per 1000 miles. Toyota executives maintain that plug-in hybrids are just as beneficial to the environement if you factor in the environmental cost of making batteries big enough to exclusively power a vehicle.

In 2018, there was a total number of approximately 15.1 million automobiles registered in California.
In 2019, there was a total number of approximately 2.257 million automobiles registered in Nevada.

How about people with no usable garage, whether they can afford the upgrade to charge an EV. What about people with older homes and only 100 Amp service?

My guess is if they really hold to this time line there will be only 5 million private vehicles registered in California in 2036. Maybe by that time driverless taxis will be commonplace, and that is the real goal.



Governor Newsom Announces California Will Phase Out Gasoline-Powered Cars & Drastically Reduce Demand for Fossil Fuel in California’s Fight Against Climate Change
Published: Sep 23, 2020

Executive order directs state to require that, by 2035, all new cars and passenger trucks sold in California be zero-emission vehicles

Transportation currently accounts for more than 50 percent of California’s Greenhouse Gas Emissions

Zero-emission vehicles are a key part of California’s clean, innovation economy – already California’s second largest global export market

Order also directs the state to take more actions to tackle the dirtiest oil extraction and support workers and job retention and creation as we make a just transition away from fossil fuels

SACRAMENTO – Governor Gavin Newsom today announced that he will aggressively move the state further away from its reliance on climate change-causing fossil fuels while retaining and creating jobs and spurring economic growth – he issued an executive order requiring sales of all new passenger vehicles to be zero-emission by 2035 and additional measures to eliminate harmful emissions from the transportation sector.

The transportation sector is responsible for more than half of all of California’s carbon pollution, 80 percent of smog-forming pollution and 95 percent of toxic diesel emissions – all while communities in the Los Angeles Basin and Central Valley see some of the dirtiest and most toxic air in the country.

“This is the most impactful step our state can take to fight climate change,” said Governor Newsom. “For too many decades, we have allowed cars to pollute the air that our children and families breathe. Californians shouldn’t have to worry if our cars are giving our kidCalifornia.
.Registered Passenger Vehicles 2,256,828. C
s asthma. Our cars shouldn’t make wildfires worse – and create more days filled with smoky air. Cars shouldn’t melt glaciers or raise sea levels threatening our cherished beaches and coastlines.”

Following the order, the California Air Resources Board will develop regulations to mandate that 100 percent of in-state sales of new passenger cars and trucks are zero-emission by 2035 – a target which would achieve more than a 35 percent reduction in greenhouse California.
.Registered Passenger Vehicles 2,256,828. C
gas emissions and an 80 percent improvement in oxides of nitrogen emissions from cars statewide. In addition, the Air Resources Board will develop regulations to mandate that all operations of medium- and heavy-duty vehicles shall be 100 percent zero emission by 2045 where feasible, with the mandate going into effect by 2035 for drayage trucks. To ensure needed infrastructure to support zero-emission vehicles, the order requires state agencies, in partnership with the private sector, to accelerate deployment of affordable fueling and charging options. It also requires support of new and used zero-emission vehicle markets to proCalifornia.
.Registered Passenger Vehicles 2,256,828. C
vide broad accessibility to zero-emission vehicles for all Californians. The executive order will not prevent Californians from owning gasoline-powered cars or selling them on the used car market.

California will be leading the nation in this effort – joining 15 countries that have already committed to phase out gasoline-powered cars and using our market power to push zero-emission vehicle innovation and drive down costs for everyone.California.
.Registered Passenger Vehicles 2,256,828. C


By the time the new rule goes into effect, zero-emission vehicles will almost certainly be cheaper and better than the traditional fossil fuel powered cars. The upfront cost of electric vehicles are projected to reach parity with conventional vehicles in just a matter of years, and the cost of owning the car – both in maintenance and how much it costs to power the car mile for mile – is far less than a fossil fuel burning vehicle.

The executive order sets clear deliverables for new health and safety regulations that protect workers and communities from the impacts of oil extraction. It supports companies who transition their upstream and downstream oil production operations to cleaner alternatives. It also directs the state to make sure taxpayers are not stuck with the bill to safely close and remediate former oil fields. To protect the health and safety of our communities and workers, the Governor is also asking the Legislature to end the issuance of new hydraulic fracturing permits by 2024.

The executive order directs state agencies to develop strategies for an integrated, statewide rail and transit network, and incorporate safe and accessible infrastructure into projects to support bicycle and pedestrian options, particularly in low-income and disadvantaged communities.

Click here for the text of EXECUTIVE ORDER N-79-20 (PDF), a copy can be found here.

This action continues the Governor’s commitment to strengthening California’s resilience while lowering carbon emissions – essential to meeting California’s air quality and climate goals. In the last six months alone, the California Air Resources Board has approved new regulations requiring truck manufacturers to transition to electric zero-emission trucks beginning in 2024 and the Governor signed an MOU with 14 other states to advance and accelerate the market for electric medium- and heavy-duty vehicles. Last fall, California led a multi-state coalition in filing a lawsuit challenging the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency’s attempt to revoke portions of a 2013 waiver that allows the state to implement its Advanced Clean Car Standards.

Last September, Governor Newsom took action to leverage the state’s transportation systems and purchasing power to strengthen climate mitigation and resiliency and to measure and manage climate risks across the state’s $700 billion pension investments. To mitigate climate threats to our communities and increase carbon sequestration, the Governor invested in forest health and fuel reduction and held utilities accountable for building resiliency. The Governor also directed state agencies to develop a comprehensive strategy to build a climate-resilient water system and made a historic investment to develop the workforce for California’s future carbon-neutral economy.
April 22nd, 2021 at 5:06:32 AM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 3619
The reason that electric only vehicles have not taken over yet fully is the complexity of getting a quick charge. It takes 5 minutes or so to fill up at a gas station, and most of the time there is a gas station on your path to your destination. Once electric cars are predominant, will there still be as many and as convenient gas stations? I think I’m my suburban existence now there are easily 20+ gas stations in a 5 mile radius of my house. And I think one electric charging station that I know of.
April 22nd, 2021 at 10:09:58 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 17346
Quote: JCW09
Why does an EV car count as a zero emission vehicle in CA when 60%+ of the electrical grid in CA get its electricity from fossil fuels?


Because they think the power comes out of the wall socket.
The President is a fink.
April 22nd, 2021 at 10:42:57 AM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 46
Posts: 4119
Quote: SOOPOO
The reason that electric only vehicles have not taken over yet fully is the complexity of getting a quick charge. It takes 5 minutes or so to fill up at a gas station, and most of the time there is a gas station on your path to your destination. Once electric cars are predominant, will there still be as many and as convenient gas stations? I think I’m my suburban existence now there are easily 20+ gas stations in a 5 mile radius of my house. And I think one electric charging station that I know of.


I would guess that in Las Vegas 40% of gas stations offer electrical charging.
We are all going to die, why procrastinate?
April 22nd, 2021 at 10:53:05 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 167
Posts: 15945
Quote: SOOPOO
The reason that electric only vehicles have not taken over yet fully is the complexity of getting a quick charge. It takes 5 minutes or so to fill up at a gas station, and most of the time there is a gas station on your path to your destination. Once electric cars are predominant, will there still be as many and as convenient gas stations? I think I’m my suburban existence now there are easily 20+ gas stations in a 5 mile radius of my house. And I think one electric charging station that I know of.


Speaking of wall sockets. They are way more convenient and accessible than underground tanks. You literally can have them just about anywhere you can get electricity to. Once people realize that, stopping only at gas stations will seem inconvenient.
April 22nd, 2021 at 12:11:39 PM permalink
JCW09
Member since: Aug 27, 2018
Threads: 12
Posts: 847
So true, you can efficiently charge your EV at anyone of the convenient wall sockets that exist in your life today.
Why didn't I think of that?
Def. of Liar - "A Person Who Tells Lies" / "I lied. Deal with it" - ams288
April 22nd, 2021 at 12:19:33 PM permalink
SOOPOO
Member since: Feb 19, 2014
Threads: 22
Posts: 3619
Quote: rxwine
Speaking of wall sockets. They are way more convenient and accessible than underground tanks. You literally can have them just about anywhere you can get electricity to. Once people realize that, stopping only at gas stations will seem inconvenient.


I thought you need to somehow ‘install’ a charging type station in your house. That a regular outlet doesn’t fit the bill. Also, I thought a nearly full charge takes quite a bit longer than my 5 minute example for gasoline.

Let’s assume I am driving my fully EV to Florida from Buffalo, and will be using AC the entire way. How many stops for how long each will it take to accomplish that? I know it is far less costly than gas, but how much will each charge cost me?
April 22nd, 2021 at 12:30:33 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 167
Posts: 15945
Quote: JCW09
So true, you can efficiently charge your EV at anyone of the convenient wall sockets that exist in your life today.
Why didn't I think of that?


Quote:
An adapter for a 110 volt outlet (NEMA 5-15) is included as standard equipment with all new Tesla cars. This provides approximately two to four miles of range per hour of charge depending on the car.
April 22nd, 2021 at 12:37:43 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 167
Posts: 15945
SOOPOO can probably figure he wouldn't want to do that long drive in electric EV. But I still stand by my prediction for the future.
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