ROEvember is Coming

Quote: SOOPOO

Let me splain it to you. In really simple terms. Are you in favor of letting a woman kill her newborn child? I mean, it’s her child, she is the parent, shouldn’t it be her right to do so? The anti abortion people believe the embryo/fetus is an alive human being.

Obviously you ( and the majority of people) don’t feel that way. You want to use a catch phrase ‘medical freedom’. The anti abortion person would ask where is the ‘medical freedom’ for the unborn human?

It’s really simple. You don’t believe a fetus has any rights. That only the mother of the fetus has rights. The pro-lifers believe the fetus has rights as an individual separate from the rights of the carrying woman.

The pro-lifers want women to be nothing more than broodmares.

I would like to tell a personal story to members. When my wife and I had been dating for over a year she became pregnant. We were both still teenagers and had to work out what to do. I was probably more in favor of abortion than other solutions. My girl friend would have probably agreed but it became obvious to me that abortion was not where her heart was. I was not ready to commit to creating a 3 person family instantly because of the pregnancy. I believed creating a family was not a decision to be taken lightly. We eventually decided to put the baby into foster care and see if we could work out the long term commitment that creating a family deserved. 6 months after he was born we decided that we had the ability and commitment to become a family. 55 year later we are still a family but with 4 members.

Even though we raised our son for all but 6 months my wife struggled with the fact that she had somehow failed her child. If she had aborted him I don't believe that she would have ever recovered from the guilt of that move.

Abortion is not without consequences and I am sure my wife is not alone in second guessing her actions. With abortion you don't get to change your mind.

Quote: Mission146

That's an easy one. In order to be a citizen, and have the Constitutional protections granted to citizens, you must first be born. They don't assign SSN's to fetuses.

And the current system is very graduated. We assign more rights, privileges based a lot on different ages. I’m not fine to assigning equal rights to life that can’t survive without direct life support from someone else’s body. I’m okay if the state can figure out how to keep the cells alive through it’s own support. But I doubt if Republicans are stupid enough to support that even if we could do it. Too much money and investment in constant resources. There’s also extreme risk of all sorts of other complications without a perfect system in place.

Quote: kenarman

I would like to tell a personal story to members. When my wife and I had been dating for over a year she became pregnant. We were both still teenagers and had to work out what to do. I was probably more in favor of abortion than other solutions. My girl friend would have probably agreed but it became obvious to me that abortion was not where her heart was. I was not ready to commit to creating a 3 person family instantly because of the pregnancy. I believed creating a family was not a decision to be taken lightly. We eventually decided to put the baby into foster care and see if we could work out the long term commitment that creating a family deserved. 6 months after he was born we decided that we had the ability and commitment to become a family. 55 year later we are still a family but with 4 members.

Even though we raised our son for all but 6 months my wife struggled with the fact that she had somehow failed her child. If she had aborted him I don't believe that she would have ever recovered from the guilt of that move.

Abortion is not without consequences and I am sure my wife is not alone in second guessing her actions. With abortion you don't get to change your mind.

I appreciate you sharing your story, but no major decision is without potential consequences. I haven't known many people to have gotten an abortion, at least that ever told me about it, but of the few I have met...none of them were particularly gung-ho about it.

Quote: SOOPOO

Let me splain it to you. In really simple terms. Are you in favor of letting a woman kill her newborn child? I mean, it’s her child, she is the parent, shouldn’t it be her right to do so? The anti abortion people believe the embryo/fetus is an alive human being.

Obviously you ( and the majority of people) don’t feel that way. You want to use a catch phrase ‘medical freedom’. The anti abortion person would ask where is the ‘medical freedom’ for the unborn human?

It’s really simple. You don’t believe a fetus has any rights. That only the mother of the fetus has rights. The pro-lifers believe the fetus has rights as an individual separate from the rights of the carrying woman.

Yes, and I understand the Taliban view women as subhuman, and their rationale for doing so, that does not mean I have to respect it. And, in both scenarios the majority of people do not, they are just fearful of retribution. Very few people are brave enough to stand against such organizations where they live (and sadly rightfully so, because both use violence routinely.)

Who will pay this lady's medical bills when the complications of birthing a deceased baby cost drastically more than a routine abortion? Or who will pay for the disabled child to live in such a state if it somehow does get born and live? I am guessing your Republicans will suddenly vanish when they should pay for something they caused....

An abortion costs a couple hundred bucks, maybe a bit more or less depending on some other factors, let's even say 1000.00 USD. How, much do the procedures that will be needed for the other complications costs? Your guess is probably better than mine (yes nobody will know for sure until the work is actually done.) But, saying 10x is conservative for a deceased birth and the care she will need from complications (that is very conservative, probably much higher.) And, how much for carrying for a human in a totally vegetative state for decades? (This is incalculable, but saying "a lot of money" is an understatement.) And, it is a safe bet that you think Texas is right to force her to carry to term, and not pay a dime of it.... And, then proceed to rant about people needing government assistance for food stamps and such....

And, what if the extreme happens (which is possible) she dies during the forced birth? Who takes care of her family then? She has a husband (who I am guessing will not be able to work for a while) and has two living kids who are healthy? I am guessing you want Texas to support them until adulthood?

I know you are not making this argument (though are kind of indirectly by defending it), but a child that can survive biologically independent of another body, is not the same as a fetus/unborn child/whatever term you want to use. The mother is the legal adult, and has the ultimate right to her body. This is just a poor argument. You may as well say people who are pro-abortion just support all murder when convenient.

And, I actually do not believe in the concept of medical freedom, that was a joke. Because (people who say this) the people who think being forced to get a vaccine to go to college is equivalence to Nazi Germany are generally the same ones who think abortion care should not only be banned, but patients and medical providers be prosecuted for even giving advice...

And, keep in mind this lady has a team of lawyers working for her (and now basically the whole media on her side.) Most people who need these kind of abortions are not so blessed and you will never hear about (and definitely cannot afford even a single attorney consultation).... And, she is still getting blocked after making her case....

Whatever the outcome of her case is, this is going to destroy her life one or multiple ways (financially, socially, possibly even criminally....) The fact that a medical doctor who seems pretty based on most social issues wants to defend a secular country allowing a state to have such a law in 2023 is odd at best....

Quote: kenarman

I would like to tell a personal story to members. When my wife and I had been dating for over a year she became pregnant. We were both still teenagers and had to work out what to do. I was probably more in favor of abortion than other solutions. My girl friend would have probably agreed but it became obvious to me that abortion was not where her heart was. I was not ready to commit to creating a 3 person family instantly because of the pregnancy. I believed creating a family was not a decision to be taken lightly. We eventually decided to put the baby into foster care and see if we could work out the long term commitment that creating a family deserved. 6 months after he was born we decided that we had the ability and commitment to become a family. 55 year later we are still a family but with 4 members.

Even though we raised our son for all but 6 months my wife struggled with the fact that she had somehow failed her child. If she had aborted him I don't believe that she would have ever recovered from the guilt of that move.

Abortion is not without consequences and I am sure my wife is not alone in second guessing her actions. With abortion you don't get to change your mind.

I am glad that worked for you guys and came to a decision as a family. But, two issues with equivalencing this to the Texas situation, you were not stopping other people from having abortions. And, (from your story here), your wife was not in danger of severe medical complications. If her choice was to abort or serious medical complications (death, trauma, or at best a routine stillbirth,) I am sure it would be a different choice and she would not insist on carrying to term.

(And, she -Texas lady- managed to convivence a Texas Court of this, and currently has kids already, so this is not her being dramatic to try to get out of having kids.... There is a recent history of their courts being very opposed to such orders, so the fact that she got one means she legit has a major issue -not that she should have to prove that-)

Quote: kenarman

I would like to tell a personal story to members. When my wife and I had been dating for over a year she became pregnant. We were both still teenagers and had to work out what to do. I was probably more in favor of abortion than other solutions. My girl friend would have probably agreed but it became obvious to me that abortion was not where her heart was. I was not ready to commit to creating a 3 person family instantly because of the pregnancy. I believed creating a family was not a decision to be taken lightly. We eventually decided to put the baby into foster care and see if we could work out the long term commitment that creating a family deserved. 6 months after he was born we decided that we had the ability and commitment to become a family. 55 year later we are still a family but with 4 members.

Even though we raised our son for all but 6 months my wife struggled with the fact that she had somehow failed her child. If she had aborted him I don't believe that she would have ever recovered from the guilt of that move.

Abortion is not without consequences and I am sure my wife is not alone in second guessing her actions. With abortion you don't get to change your mind.

Congrats and a great story.

I favored the alternate option many times.

Expect to hear LOTS of stories like this in the next 11 months.

Quote: ams288

Expect to hear LOTS of stories like this in the next 11 months.

I am sure after this ordeal she will happily return to Texas and continue to vote Red after this ordeal like everyone on the right is claiming that these ordeals make people more likely to vote red....

I am pretty sure the right just managed to transition a traditional family (who has kids and is trying to have more) to solid blue.

(And, for the record, I am not saying that somebody who votes red deserves to go through such ordeals. But, I am saying that this is a good way to transition traditionally red families when they are desperate enough to flee out of state for an abortion to get around a court order.)

Quote: ams288

Expect to hear LOTS of stories like this in the next 11 months.

I am sure after this ordeal she will happily return to Texas and continue to vote Red after this ordeal like everyone on the right is claiming that these ordeals make people more likely to vote red....

I am pretty sure the right just managed to transition a traditional family (who has kids and is trying to have more) to solid blue.

(And, for the record, I am not saying that somebody who votes red deserves to go through such ordeals. But, I am saying that this is a good way to transition traditionally red families when they are desperate enough to flee out of state for an abortion to get around a court order.)