Wyoming proposal to ban EVs by 2035

Quote: missedhervee

Build massive coal, oil, and natural gas fueled power plants, with the infrastructure to export electricity across this fair land..

Wyoming already exports most of the electricity they generate, but long distance transmission of electricity is very expensive because it requires DC lines.

The dirtiest states are usually the ones that burn the most coal. Hawaii burns oil instead of coal, which is why their electricity is so expensive.

State annual CO2 total output emission rate (lb/MWh) for 2020
1,976 WY
1,910 WV
1,673 KY
1,606 MO
1,602 Puerto Rico
1,555 UT
1,540 IN
1,515 HI
1,378 ND
1,253 NM
1,246 OH
1,212 CO
1,192 NE
1,185 WI
961 AK

For Wyoming and West Virginia the conversion to Battery Electric Vehicles is probably a waste. They would be much better off with a Prius or one of the following non plug-in hybrids:

• 54.0 mpg 2023 Hyundai Elantra Hybrid Blue
• 53.1 mpg 2023 Kia Niro FE
• 51.9 mpg 2023 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid Blue
• 51.7 mpg 2023 Toyota Camry Hybrid LE
• 50.5 mpg 2023 Hyundai Elantra Hybrid
• 50.0 mpg 2023 Toyota Corolla Hybrid
• 49.0 mpg 2023 Kia Niro
• 48.0 mpg 2023 Toyota Corolla Hybrid Awd
• 47.2 mpg 2023 Hyundai Sonata Hybrid
• 47.0 mpg 2023 Toyota Corolla Hybrid
• 46.2 mpg 2023 Toyota Camry Hybrid Se/Xle/Xse
• 44.0 mpg 2023 Toyota Es 300h
• 44.0 mpg 2023 Toyota Corolla Hybrid Awd
• 43.2 mpg 2023 Kia Sportage Hybrid Fwd
• 42.1 mpg 2023 Toyota Ux 250h
• 40.3 mpg 2023 Honda Cr-V Fwd
• 40.2 mpg 2023 Toyota Rav4 Hybrid Awd

A Tesla Model Y can drive for 3,700 miles on a megawatt of electricity. In Wyoming that means 1,976 lbs of carbon dioxide.
If a gasoline hybrid vehicle gets 37.5 mpg or better on average , it will emit less than 1976 lbs of carbon dioxide when driving 3700 miles.

I realize that none of the vehicles in the above list are the equivalent vehicle of a Tesla Model Y, but coming closer is a:
35.9 mpg 2023 Toyota Highlander Hybrid

I resent the government attempting to control . dictate the type of car I can drive.

I will never get an EV.

"Fill 'er up, and check the oil..."

The Coal comes from the Powder River Basin in Northeast Wyoming


The Southwest desert in Wyoming could become America's biggest wind farm with Biden administration approval of the Transwest Express Transmission Project

Just imagine that empty desert covered with thousands of wind turbines feeding SOCAL.

By the numbers
732 miles of high-voltage transmission infrastructure consisting of two systems: a 3,000 MW direct current (DC) segment with terminals near Sinclair, Wyo., and Delta, Utah; and a 1,500 MW alternating current (AC) segment from the Utah terminal to southern Nevada.
$3 billion estimated cost
DC system terminals to be phased over time from 1,500 MW to 3,000 MW of transmission capacity

Transwest route
The TransWest Express Transmission Project is a high-voltage interregional electric transmission system developed by TransWest Express LLC. The TWE Project is critical new infrastructure that will deliver electricity generated by renewable resources and will strengthen the power grid that serves the Western United States. For example, the TWE Project can reliably deliver cost-effective renewable wind energy produced in Wyoming to the Desert Southwest region (California, Nevada, Arizona), providing much-needed zero-carbon electricity to millions of homes and businesses every year. Wyoming’s high-capacity wind energy resources complement the Desert Southwest's renewables, offering geographic diversity to help this region not only save money but also achieve GHG emissions reduction goals.

Quote: Pacomartin

It is possible they want someone to challenge it in court and rule it unlawful to ban a kind of propulsion fuel. Then someone can use the ruling as a precedent to challenge California law.

(Quote clipped, relevance)

I suspect that this is the case.

Also, how is one thing, 'Crony Capitalism,' and the other isn't? You guys don't think any number of people on the Left are just lined up to fellate large corporations? It just depends on the large corporation. By the way, here's a, "Support Small Businesses," yard sign that can conveniently be ordered from Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/Imagine-Signs-Support-Small-Businesses/dp/B08P2CDS69

Anyone who cares about the consumer will want things to be done as cheaply as possible, that failing, at least have products that people can afford. For new vehicles, those are gas-powered by a mile...actually, by several miles.

Horses were replaced by cars. Gas will likely eventually be replaced by electric. If you want it to happen by a certain date, then you should (for the most part) convince consumers of electric's superiority by that date.

"Winterborn"-Cruxshadows

Quote: OnceDear

Stupid and Absurd will be along shortly to post their support for this great idea.

:D

This tends to be more a Republican thing. Proposing bills that they KNOW have no chance of actually becoming a law. The House will be doing that repeatedly now that none of the bills passed will become law without Chuck Shumer’s permission. Didn’t they pass a few dozen repeals of Obamacare UNTIL they also had a Republican Senate?

I think often these stupid bills are really just proposed to hammer home a point. Every day there are more and more EV’s. When was the last time we built a new power plant?

The world really cannot do one size fits all and needs multiple sources of options in the first place. This is actually where diversity is actually needed to not cause supply crunches.

Quote: SOOPOO

When was the last time we built a new power plant?

The U.S. added 27,959 MW of new generating capacity to the grid in 2021, according to an S&P Global Market Intelligence analysis.

Meanwhile, 8,556 MW of capacity was retired in 2021, netting an additional 19,403 MW available to the U.S. power grid.

Wind and solar capacity dominated the new additions, accounting for 41% and 36%, respectively. Natural gas-fired capacity, made up about 20%.

The question is simply this: when and if we move to most folks driving EV's, will the technology allow for fast charges and will enough electricity be available at an affordable price to service them?

I don't think so.

Should be ... interesting ...

Quote: missedhervee

... will enough electricity be available at an affordable price to service them?

Several articles point to this youtube video as the answer to this question based on past experience. Utilimately Jason Fenske explains that the growth rate of electricity production from 1960 to 2000 averaged out to 4% increase per year which should be more than enough to answer YES to the question "If Gas Cars Are Banned, Can The Grid Handle Electric Cars?"

In reality it is not necessary to go back to the 1960s and 1970s. The rate of increase in the 1980s would be more than sufficient.

However growth in the 1980s was accomplished
52% coal
19% nuclear
12% natural gas
12% renewables
5% petroleum and other

So the rate of increase in terawatt hours of the 1980s was enough, but the way it was done is no longer acceptable,

Quote: Pacomartin

However growth in the 1980s was accomplished
52% coal
19% nuclear
12% natural gas
12% renewables
5% petroleum and other

So the rate of increase in terawatt hours of the 1980s was enough, but the way it was done is no longer acceptable,

not qualified to determine this, but my opinion is if it is possible, that the new percentages would need to be as below approximately, then evaluated later in the face of new tech. I'd put coal at the top except for political acceptability. It also assumes improved extraction of natural gas continues without problems in the near term

compromise necessary to get to this even,

35% natural gas
35% nuclear
15% renewables
13% coal
2% petroleum and other [what is other?]

you can see I have little faith in the ability of renewables 'taking over' as is the heartfelt hope of so many. Petroleum also has the political acceptability problem. Natural gas can't provide such a large percentage indefinitely, and possibly nuclear can't, some say. Nuclear as it is now may run out of uranium, but there are other directions to go. We either need to get nuclear fusion going or learn to extract the hydrocarbons that are just sitting on the ocean floor at deep depths [also has political problems]

PS, As tech improves maybe renewables can get to 20-25%