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When is it self-defense?

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July 15th, 2013 at 10:23:57 AM permalink

rxwine

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18762

Here's the actual scenario:

Quote:
"I've never been so scared in my life," Dunn tells police in the video. He insists he wasn't looking for a fight when he pulled next to the teen's SUV. Dunn says he was on his way to a Jacksonville hotel after his son's wedding in Orange Park.

"Their music starts and I roll down my window, and I thought I was polite, and asked them nicely, hey would you guys mind turning that down?"

Dunn says the teens did at first, but through a closed window, he could tell one of them was upset. That's when he says things started to heat up.

"I thought they were singing, but [then they said] you're going to die [expletive removed]. Then it started getting a little louder. That's when I popped my window down and was like, 'You're talking about me?' And they was like you're dead. You're dead [expletive removed]!"

Dunn says he thought one of the teens had a shotgun.

"It was either a barrel or a stick but, sir, they're like we're going to kill you and then they said, 'you're dead [expletive removed].' What I should have done was put the car in reverse, but that shotgun come up or whatever it was - fight or flight - and I don't think there was time for flight at that moment because I was going to get shot."

Dunn says he grabbed his gun from his glove box and shot at the SUV four times. As the teens drove away, he says he fired four more times.

The follow-up is one teen was killed and no other gun was found.

When do you decide self-defense?

You can argue it should never happened, or one or all are dumbasses, but going on the above when is it time to shoot? Florida has stand your ground, so no need for the guy to retreat from the situation. In fact, I think he is going to use that in his defense.

You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?

July 15th, 2013 at 10:27:37 AM permalink
rxwine Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 189 Posts: 18762	And if you're curious, the further followup is the guy went and ordered pizza and went home. So, forgetting for a moment he is probably a dumbass and maybe lying and might get convicted, still just curious when it is time to pull a gun, IF YOU BELIEVED THE OTHER PART You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?

July 15th, 2013 at 10:52:13 AM permalink

Nareed

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545

Quote: rxwine
The follow-up is one teen was killed and no other gun was found.

It's hard to say with the information given. For insatnce, while there was no gun found, that doesn't mean there was no gun at all. Furhter, was there something found which might have been mistaken for a gun under the conditions?

Shooting after the threat was driving away, though, won't go down well.

Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER

July 15th, 2013 at 11:00:17 AM permalink

rxwine

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18762

Quote: Nareed
Furhter, was there something found which might have been mistaken for a gun under the conditions?

True. Do you shoot someone holding a broom handle sitting in a car? Is that enough of a threat if you thought it was a shotgun coming up from the seat about to be turned in your direction..

In these days of tinted windows, you may not know for sure.

You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?

July 15th, 2013 at 11:11:50 AM permalink
Nareed Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 346 Posts: 12545	Quote: rxwine True. Do you shoot someone holding a broom handle sitting in a car? Is that enough of a threat if you thought it was a shotgun coming up from the seat about to be turned in your direction.. It's like this: if someone's yelling deth threats at you and you see something that might be a gun, you shouldn't wait to find out for sure. Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER

July 15th, 2013 at 11:48:32 AM permalink

TheCesspit

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 1929

Quote: rxwine
True. Do you shoot someone holding a broom handle sitting in a car? Is that enough of a threat if you thought it was a shotgun coming up from the seat about to be turned in your direction..

In these days of tinted windows, you may not know for sure.

The London Police shot someone holding a table leg : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Harry_Stanley

Then again, they also shot a unarmed Brazilian man riding the tube to work : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Jean_Charles_de_Menezes

It is said that your life flashes before your eyes just before you die.... it's called Life

July 15th, 2013 at 11:50:49 AM permalink
Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831	Probably insufficient threat. His engine was running, he has forward, he has reverse. If he is blocked in, so are they. He can arm himself and wait. Even if he is wrong, better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.... but two sets of windows to be shot through.? Strange.

July 15th, 2013 at 11:56:03 AM permalink
Face Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 61 Posts: 3941	Quote: Nareed It's like this: if someone's yelling deth threats at you and you see something that might be a gun, you shouldn't wait to find out for sure. Thanks for saving me a bunch of typing. The guy still shot at a retreating car, AND never reported it. He'll burn Be bold and risk defeat, or be cautious and encourage it.

July 15th, 2013 at 12:20:18 PM permalink

Nareed

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 346
Posts: 12545

Quote: Face
Thanks for saving me a bunch of typing.

You're welcome.

Quote:
The guy still shot at a retreating car, AND never reported it. He'll burn

You can justify firing at a retreating car as the heat of the moment, or altered emotional state. But it does look really bad. Not reporting it is worse.

I'm concerned, though, as these rather marginal cases are trumpeted as examples against self-defense. That will tend to leave others more exposed and more at risk when confronted by thugs and criminals. While the man in this case may not have acted well, more blame should be ascribed to the teens for making death threats to begin with.

Donald Trump is a one-term LOSER

July 15th, 2013 at 1:29:45 PM permalink

rxwine

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 189
Posts: 18762

Quote: Nareed
It's like this: if someone's yelling deth threats at you and you see something that might be a gun, you shouldn't wait to find out for sure.

Of course, the kid killed could be an 8 year old brother who picked up a broom stick, and they were getting ready to drop him off at home before going out partying.

If you're deciding in a moment of panic anything could happen. But anyway... was curious to see opinions.

You believe in an invisible god, and dismiss people who say they are trans? Really?

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