Grafton, NH

Quote: Mission146

More than, unlike what your posts might lead one to believe, I just care that the Minimum Wage hasn’t gone up in fifteen years. I look at the entire Government and say this is inexcusable. The impression I get is you don’t care if it goes up or not; you care about being able to point the finger at Republicans, which is my point about Democrats, in general, and is also the reason why the minimum wage hasn’t changed in fifteen years.

We have something better than it going up. We have gone to de facto state control of it, which is better. Why have the same MW in CA as MS? Better yet, we have proven we do not really need it. How many jobs pay less than $10 per hour? Usually the lowest you see is $12-13.

Some on this board seem to think the Democrats want it raised because they care about MW workers. Nope. They care about the union workers who have their wages set as a multiplier of federal MW. What surprises me is that Democrats have not tried to make it an issue like they have so many times in the past. Biden could have tried to pass an increase in 2021, he did not. Clearly they prefer having the issue than solving the issue.

*I hate to defend politicians not doing what they say. But one can promise "a" knowing that "b". "c', and "d" cannot occur in order to accomplish it. But also things unexpected like "e", "f" and "g" they may not have considered. Then there is how much pollical capital they have to squander on "a" because "a" is not the only thing they will have to do. They also need to address "h", "i" and "j". If things get really bad, they need to deal with k thru z. in the same term.

*I hope someone enjoyed that.

Quote: AZDuffman

We have something better than it going up. We have gone to de facto state control of it, which is better. Why have the same MW in CA as MS? Better yet, we have proven we do not really need it. How many jobs pay less than $10 per hour? Usually the lowest you see is $12-13.

Some on this board seem to think the Democrats want it raised because they care about MW workers. Nope. They care about the union workers who have their wages set as a multiplier of federal MW. What surprises me is that Democrats have not tried to make it an issue like they have so many times in the past. Biden could have tried to pass an increase in 2021, he did not. Clearly they prefer having the issue than solving the issue.

If the states want to have a higher minimum wage than Federal, that's perfectly fine. It remains the case that something like twenty states are the same Minimum Wage of $7.25/hour that Federal Minimum Wage is.

I think what we've proven is that not only do we need it, but also that there should be something by way of automatic increases or increases with inflation. Just because the broader employment market eventually rejected $7.25 as a starting point (which it's been for fifteen years) doesn't prove anything.

Furthermore, as I've already suggested, when MW is meant to be a base...you really don't want very many people to actually be making that. That's why I'd target somewhere between $12-$13 after three years and then index to inflation thereafter. Essentially, my three-year target is and was exactly what you said the lowest earners are already making, so it really just protects the bottom from decreasing.

I agree with your last paragraph. If they actually cared about the lowest income Americans, then they would take whatever deal that the Republicans are willing to offer them as better than nothing.

Quote: rxwine

*I hate to defend politicians not doing what they say. But one can promise "a" knowing that "b". "c', and "d" cannot occur in order to accomplish it. But also things unexpected like "e", "f" and "g" they may not have considered. Then there is how much pollical capital they have to squander on "a" because "a" is not the only thing they will have to do. They also need to address "h", "i" and "j". If things get really bad, they need to deal with k thru z. in the same term.

*I hope someone enjoyed that.

LOL

I get all of that, but to me, this issue would be a simple, single-issue bill to at least do something if any of the politicians cared whatsoever.

Quote: Mission146

If the states want to have a higher minimum wage than Federal, that's perfectly fine. It remains the case that something like twenty states are the same Minimum Wage of $7.25/hour that Federal Minimum Wage is.

I think what we've proven is that not only do we need it, but also that there should be something by way of automatic increases or increases with inflation. Just because the broader employment market eventually rejected $7.25 as a starting point (which it's been for fifteen years) doesn't prove anything.

Furthermore, as I've already suggested, when MW is meant to be a base...you really don't want very many people to actually be making that. That's why I'd target somewhere between $12-$13 after three years and then index to inflation thereafter. Essentially, my three-year target is and was exactly what you said the lowest earners are already making, so it really just protects the bottom from decreasing.

I agree with your last paragraph. If they actually cared about the lowest income Americans, then they would take whatever deal that the Republicans are willing to offer them as better than nothing.

Much ado about nothing.

"In 2021, 1.4 percent of workers in the United States were paid hourly rates at or below the official minimum wage. This is a decrease from the previous year, when 1.5 percent of workers were paid at or below the official minimum wage. Nov 3, 2023"

Quote: Mission146

Dog sitter? No. I don’t understand why you’re giving your dog sitter a 1099 unless your dog sitter explicitly asked for one, which would have me equally confused. You’re not a business; you’re hiring someone on a contract basis to do you a personal service, and as far as I know, the dog sitter isn’t a business. If the dog sitter is a business, then they can only charge you $5 if they wanted to.

You really think can be done?

So I want to hire a kid to do odd jobs but only pay him $10 an hour. Minimum wage is $15. He wants the job. So we can circumvent the minimum wage laws by having him ‘form a corporation’ and have ‘the corporation’ only charge me $10 an hour for the work?

Just so I understand you, you think you are not subject to labor laws when you hire someone to work for you?

Quote: kenarman

Much ado about nothing.

"In 2021, 1.4 percent of workers in the United States were paid hourly rates at or below the official minimum wage. This is a decrease from the previous year, when 1.5 percent of workers were paid at or below the official minimum wage. Nov 3, 2023"

So not true! It’s much ado about something! My son was making around double minimum wage. When minimum wage went up do you think his salary stayed the same? Of course not! There are lots of low end jobs that pay ‘$1 over minimum’ as an incentive to get workers.

How many stores/businesses are closed because at $10 an hour for the 10 kids he can make a small profit but not at $15 an hour? If he can’t find someone to work for him at $10 an hour and fails, so be it. If he fails because the governor won’t let him pay $10 an hour, I think that is NOT what we have a government for.

By the way, I see signs for $15.25 or $15.50 an hour. Probably so business can tout ‘we pay above’ minimum wage.

Quote: kenarman

Much ado about nothing.

"In 2021, 1.4 percent of workers in the United States were paid hourly rates at or below the official minimum wage. This is a decrease from the previous year, when 1.5 percent of workers were paid at or below the official minimum wage. Nov 3, 2023"

Oh, that's good. ONLY 1.4% are making the equivalent of $5.07/hour, relative to 2009 spending power. Terrific. Definitely excusable. That's actually higher than I probably would have guessed.

You are making my point for me. People can find work well above minimum wage and few are paid at that rate so the fact it so low is irrelevant in most instances.

Quote: SOOPOO

You really think can be done?

So I want to hire a kid to do odd jobs but only pay him $10 an hour. Minimum wage is $15. He wants the job. So we can circumvent the minimum wage laws by having him ‘form a corporation’ and have ‘the corporation’ only charge me $10 an hour for the work?

Just so I understand you, you think you are not subject to labor laws when you hire someone to work for you?

Good lord.

First of all, as far as odd jobs are concerned (and as AZDuffman mentioned), unless someone is doing a ton of odd jobs for you, then it's generally going to fall under the mandatory 1099 ($600) reporting anyway.

Secondly, as I've already said, you ARE NOT A BUSINESS!!! Legally speaking, THEY must report the income to the IRS, but because you are not a business, you are not obligated to report anything. The reason why is because it doesn't qualify as payroll, BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT A BUSINESS, it qualifies as a personal expense.

Third, I have no idea what a corporation necessarily has to do with anything. As mentioned, you're not a business and have no duty to report anything to the IRS; he has a duty to report what you have paid him, but I have absolutely no idea why he would ever want to do that.

The closest possible comparison would be that the dog sitter is a proprietorship. Because of that, he is the owner (of himself) and is not his own employee. Operating as a sole-proprietorship (which he is, indeed, actually doing) he's not obligated to pay himself minimum wage. In other words, he can offer to babysit the dogs, on a contract basis, for $0.14 if he wants to. He's not his own employee and he's also not your employee BECAUSE YOU ARE NOT A BUSINESS!!! You are contracting him to do you a personal service and can pay whatever the two of you agree to.