Airport reviews

September 12th, 2014 at 1:37:03 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 753
Posts: 8890
Quote: Nareed
The legroom on Interjet's one model A-320 is HUGE. I picked a seat on an exit row for the Aeromexico flight, and the legroom, I swear, was better on Interjet.

But considering Aeromexico charges about 1/3 to 1/2 more, it makes them look chintzy.


Interjet has taken the lead in domestic passengers in Mexico last year (without a business or first class). Just by having decent seats for everyone (in a 3-3 configuration).

Passengers Domestic 2013
7,456,885 Interjet (ABC Aerolíneas)
7,056,355 Volaris (Concesionaria Vuela Cia de Aviación)
5,835,307 Aeroméxico Connect (Aerolitoral)
5,059,605 Aeroméxico (Aerovías de México)
3,734,259 Vivaaerobus (Aeroenlaces)
821,971 Magnicharters (Grupo Aéreo Monterrey)
523,165 Aeromar

Volaris 50 single aisle jets with 8,100 seats
Aeromexico 52 single aisle jets with 7,420 seats
Interjet 43 single aisle jets with 6,450 seats
September 12th, 2014 at 6:48:53 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 332
Posts: 11753
Quote: Pacomartin
Interjet has taken the lead in domestic passengers in Mexico last year (without a business or first class). Just by having decent seats for everyone (in a 3-3 configuration).

Passengers Domestic 2013
7,456,885 Interjet (ABC Aerolíneas)
7,056,355 Volaris (Concesionaria Vuela Cia de Aviación)
5,835,307 Aeroméxico Connect (Aerolitoral)
5,059,605 Aeroméxico (Aerovías de México)


I wouldn't count Aeromexico and Aeromexico Connect as two different companies. Whatever the definition on paper, in practice they're one and the same. All sales go through Aeromexico. There's no Aeromexico Connect website, no Aeromexico Connect check-in counter, even the boarding announcement is made mentioning only Aeromexico.

Interjet is winning market share by 1) providing good prices, 2) providing good service (most of the time), 3) not piling on fees on top of fares (luggage fees, premium seat fees, etc.), 4) providing additional services like airport shuttles, airport cabs and airport parking.

They also offer package trips with hotels and car rentals. But so does just about every other airline in the world. What they don't do is appear on travel sale sites like Expedia and Orbitz (at least not as of last year when I checked), but curiously they are listed on sites like Best Day and Despegar.com

BTW First and/or Business class on short trips strikes me as a wasteful status symbol. I can understand wanting a wider, more comfortable seat with better service and more legroom for a long trip, say 5-6+ hours and more, if you can afford it. But for a 60-90 minute hop the price difference just isn't worth it, IMO. For times in between, it depends a lot on the particulars.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
September 12th, 2014 at 9:08:54 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 753
Posts: 8890
Quote: Nareed
BTW First and/or Business class on short trips strikes me as a wasteful status symbol. I can understand wanting a wider, more comfortable seat with better service and more legroom for a long trip, say 5-6+ hours and more, if you can afford it. But for a 60-90 minute hop the price difference just isn't worth it, IMO. For times in between, it depends a lot on the particulars.


I think that as well. The USA airlines usually put 150 seats on the same airframe, but can go as low as 138. I should think you could make as much money from everyone paying a few dollars more for basic comfort, than to overcharge a handful of people. Much of the first class is upgrades anyway.

Interjet doesn't publish it's seat pitch and width online, but I am guessing that they have a 32-33" pitch and 17.7-18.0" width for everyone (150 seats).

Maximum permitted by certification for an A320 (180 seats).

VivaAerobus (180 seats - 30 rows) one class
Volaris (174 seats - 29 rows) one class
Interjet (150 seats - 25 rows) one class

Spirit (178 seats)
36" 20.0" 4 Big Front
28" 17.75" 174 standard seats

American (150 seats)
38" 21.0" 12 recliner seats
31" 18.0" 138 standard seats

Delta (150 seats)
36" 21.0" 12 recliner seats
34" 17.2" 18 Economy Comfort
31-32" 17.2" 120 standard seats

United version A (150 seats)
39" 20.5" 12 recliner seats with 6.0" recline
35" 17.7" 42 Economy Plus with 5.0" recline
30" 17.7" 96 Economy seats with 4.0" recline

United version B (144 seats)
38" 20.5" 12 recliner seats with 6.0" recline
36" 18.0" 42 Economy Plus with 5.0" recline
31" 18.0" 90 Economy seats with 4.0" recline

United version C (138 seats)
38" 20.5" 12 recliner seats with 6.0" recline
36" 18.0" 36 Economy Plus with 5.0" recline
31" 18.0" 90 Economy seats with 4.0" recline



Southwest doesn't fly the A320, but their standard pitch is 31", but in their new planes they have added 1"-2" in all seats.
September 12th, 2014 at 9:44:08 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 753
Posts: 8890
Quote: Nareed
I wouldn't count Aeromexico and Aeromexico Connect as two different companies. Whatever the definition on paper, in practice they're one and the same.


It helps to see what will happen when Interjet, Volaris, and Viva all triple their number of single aisle jets, and Aeromexico triples there. Some of those planes will go to international demand as Mexican airlines try to win back the seats lost to US airlines when Mexicana collapsed, but most of it is intending to go to future domestic growth.

Passengers Domestic 2013
7,456,885 Interjet (ABC Aerolíneas)
7,056,355 Volaris (Concesionaria Vuela Cia de Aviación)
5,835,307 Aeroméxico Connect (Aerolitoral)
5,059,605 Aeroméxico (Aerovías de México)
3,734,259 Vivaaerobus (Aeroenlaces)
821,971 Magnicharters (Grupo Aéreo Monterrey)
523,165 Aeromar


Aeroméxico Connect can only grow at a limited rate because of the smaller Embraer jets.
September 12th, 2014 at 12:59:56 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 332
Posts: 11753
Quote: Pacomartin
Aeroméxico Connect can only grow at a limited rate because of the smaller Embraer jets.


The boarding pass also only says Aeromexico. The one time you know you're flying "another" airline is when you see the plane, if you bother to, and notice the word "Connect" under the Aeromexico name.

Mexicana was the same way with its subsidiaries Mexicana Link and Mexicana Click. Though when they flew out of Toluca they did advertise the Click fares on the website, because it was allegedly their low-cost arm.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
September 12th, 2014 at 2:31:04 PM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 753
Posts: 8890
Quote: Nareed
The boarding pass also only says Aeromexico. The one time you know you're flying "another" airline is when you see the plane, if you bother to, and notice the word "Connect" under the Aeromexico name.


I understand. But the trunk airlines and the littoral airline are usually run differently. They have different contracts with their pilots. The management is usually anxious to put bigger and bigger jets into the "littoral airline" umbrella because salaries and other costs are lower.

The pilots resist wearing away at their salary. For example, the pilot union for United will not permit a jet with more than 76 seats to be flown under the United Express name.

But the regional airlines and the trunk airlines have both increased domestic passengers by 50% since 2005. Aeroméxico Connect is carrying more domestic passengers than Mexicana was in 2005.


Millions of Domestic Passengers 2013 2005
Aeroméxico Connect (Aerolitoral) 5.84 0.89
Aerocalifornia 0.00 1.76
Aerovías Caribe S.A de C.V 0.00 0.92
Aeromar 0.52 0.57
Magnicharters (Grupo Aéreo Monterrey) 0.82 0.55
7.18 4.70
Aeroméxico (Aerovías de México) 5.06 6.42
Mexicana (Mexicana de Aviación) 0.00 4.59
Aviacsa (Consorcio Aviaxsa) 0.00 3.12
Lineas Aereas Azteca 0.00 0.94
Avolar 0.00 0.02
Interjet (ABC Aerolíneas) 7.46 0.04
Volaris (Concesionaria Vuela Cia de Aviación) 7.06 0.00
Vivaaerobus (Aeroenlaces) 3.73 0.00
23.31 15.13


Every airline in Mexico now has some business flying to the USA. Even in the USA, some of the regional airlines are flying to Mexico today.
September 15th, 2014 at 6:40:49 AM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 332
Posts: 11753
Quote: Pacomartin
I understand. But the trunk airlines and the littoral airline are usually run differently. They have different contracts with their pilots. The management is usually anxious to put bigger and bigger jets into the "littoral airline" umbrella because salaries and other costs are lower.


I'm aware of all this. However, what I care about an airline is how it affects me: prices, services and so on. Given that, Aeromexico and Aeromexico connect are the same airline.

Quote:
Every airline in Mexico now has some business flying to the USA. Even in the USA, some of the regional airlines are flying to Mexico today.


IMO both Interjet and Volaris took an unholy amount of time expanding out of the country. Interjet in particular began with such puzzling destinations as Guatemala City (since discontinued). Granted at the time both Mexicana and Aeromexico dominated many such routes, but also at the time the fledgling low-costs were in a better position to undercut them on prize.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
September 15th, 2014 at 10:18:37 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 753
Posts: 8890
If you look at the Embraer models below:

E170 (70 to 78 Seats) | 2100 nm Range | General Electric CF34-8E Engines | LR & AR Versions
E175 (70 to 88 Seats) | 2000 nm Range | General Electric CF34-8E Engines | LR & AR Versions
E190 (98 to 114 Seats) | 2400 nm Range | General Electric CF34-10E Engines | LR & AR Versions
E195 (108 to 124 seats) | Range: 2200nm | General Electric CF34-10E | Engines LR & AR versions |

The agreement with the pilots is that no Express or connector airline can fly a jet with more than 76 passengers. As a result United Express, Delta connect, and Envoy air are all limited to purchasing the E170.

I understand that American has 60 of the larger jets on order, and is planning a future agreement with a support airline to use them.


The mainline airlines are trying to phase out most jets with 124 seats or less, as being relatively inefficient compared with the 140-180 seat jets. The Low Cost carriers are packing as many as 220 seats into a single aisle jet.

The largest connection airlines, ExpressJet has tried to fly their own routes, but it was a short lived experiment. They would then be free to purchase the largest Embraer jets (or even the Russian ones).

Mexico doesn't seem to have similar restrictions with their unions. Aeromexico connect flies 100 seat Embraers.
September 15th, 2014 at 4:37:54 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 332
Posts: 11753
Quote: Pacomartin
The Low Cost carriers are packing as many as 220 seats into a single aisle jet.


Pretty soon they'll have to cover the passengers in oil...

Quote:
Mexico doesn't seem to have similar restrictions with their unions. Aeromexico connect flies 100 seat Embraers.


I think it's 90, as the first class seats up front take up less passengers.

No idea what restrictions there may be.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
September 16th, 2014 at 12:54:22 AM permalink
Pacomartin
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 753
Posts: 8890
Quote: Nareed
I think it's 90, as the first class seats up front take up less passengers.

No idea what restrictions there may be.


Aeromexico Connect puts 99 in the E190.

USA airlines can purchase the E190 and E195, but under the union agreement they must fly them under the mainline banner where the pilots are paid more.

The next generation Embraer jets will be as large as the Airbus 319


I wonder if Embraer can make a jet as large as the A320, A321 or the B737-700. Perhaps they choose to star just under the competition threshold.