In The News Today...

Quote: boymimbo

Yeah, he's a dead "hero" who, despite having a gun, got killed, not knowing the situation he was in.

He looks like a hero the way I read it. Confronts a cop killer when nobody else would. Once upon a time this was considered acting manly.

Points:

(1) The good guy with the gun did not stop the bad guy with the gun. He didn't understand the situation and got killed as a result of trying to be courageous. Yes, his actions were of excellent intent, and he died as a result, accomplishing nothing.

(2) The shooters were ultraright radicals killing the police for political purposes, a double bonus for the Liberals who support gun control and who are against the right.

Quote: boymimbo

(1) The good guy with the gun did not stop the bad guy with the gun. He didn't understand the situation and got killed as a result of trying to be courageous. Yes, his actions were of excellent intent, and he died as a result, accomplishing nothing.

First off, I can't believe I'm responding to this ridiculous argument...LOL

Anyway, do you think that cops who get shot and die in the line of duty aren't heroes? And if/when a cop dies in the line of duty, that proves (in your mind) that cops...............shouldn't have guns? Huh???

I can't believe I'm actually having this conversation with you, but then again, aren't you the guy who believes that burglars who break into your home will never hurt you because they're very moral people who only want your money?? :D

Quote: boymimbo

(2) The shooters were ultraright radicals killing the police for political purposes, a double bonus for the Liberals who support gun control and who are against the right.

...and Chris Dorner was an ultra left-wing radical. So was Jared Loughner. So was Elliot Rodger's family.

Your point (which you didn't answer last time)?????

Quote: boymimbo

Points:

(1) The good guy with the gun did not stop the bad guy with the gun. He didn't understand the situation and got killed as a result of trying to be courageous. Yes, his actions were of excellent intent, and he died as a result, accomplishing nothing.

And the people who died by gunfire in "gun free zones" died for no reason as well, being a "gun free zone" was meaningless. I still call the guy a hero.

Quote:

(2) The shooters were ultraright radicals killing the police for political purposes, a double bonus for the Liberals who support gun control and who are against the right.

So, you think two dead cops is a good thing for liberals? I won't even add to that with commentary.

Quote: boymimbo

Points:

(1) The good guy with the gun did not stop the bad guy with the gun. He didn't understand the situation and got killed as a result of trying to be courageous. Yes, his actions were of excellent intent, and he died as a result, accomplishing nothing.
.

Good lord. That's the very ESSENCE of what courage
is, doing something right and NOT KNOWING THE
OUTCOME. This is why we award medals. Doing
something where you knoew everything will be OK doesn't
take courage, we do that stuff every day.

The fact that this has to be explained to an adult
is a little frightening to me, what world do you
live in?

Quote: boymimbo

And the gunmen decided to use the Tea Party flag to cover the officers after they shot them. And they were interviewed near the Bundy, supporting Bundy's attempt to keep his cattle on federal land.

As one who despises all forms of current politics, it sort of offends* me to hear it referred to as "The Tea Party" flag. The Gadsden is, in my opinion, the most important flag. Other than the memorial flag of the Stars and Stripes that laid on my WWII / Korea veteran grandfather's casket, it is the only flag I own, and the only one I display. Should there come a time when I acquire a flagpole, it will be the only one I fly.

It is too hallowed to ever be sullied by ownership of a political party. I don't care who "claims";, it is not theirs.

*not "offend" like I think you meant to hurt me. You know, it just bothers me. Greatly =p

(Sorry, AZ. The Tea Party can kiss my ass when it comes to the Gadsden =p)

Quote: Evenbob

Good lord. That's the very ESSENCE of what courage
is, doing something right and NOT KNOWING THE
OUTCOME. This is why we award medals. Doing
something where you knoew everything will be OK doesn't
take courage, we do that stuff every day.

The fact that this has to be explained to an adult
is a little frightening to me, what world do you
live in?

I said he was courageous, but not a hero. A hero to me is someone who both tries and accomplishes his goal. If a burglar comes into your home and you pull a gun but get shot anyway, are you a hero? No. You're a hero if you shoot the burglar and save your family from injury.

Just like those cops who got shot were not heroes either. They might have been heroes earlier in their career, but they were not heroes simply because they got shot.

The guy who died in Walmart accomplished nothing. He pulled a gun, became an instant target, and died. He didn't stop the shooter. He is courageous, but being courageous does not make a hero.

Quote: boymimbo

I said he was courageous, but not a hero. A hero to me is someone who both tries and accomplishes his goal. If a burglar comes into your home and you pull a gun but get shot anyway, are you a hero? No. You're a hero if you shoot the burglar and save your family from injury.

I tend to agree with you colloquially, but the dictionary disagrees with us both.

Hero - n - 1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

He was brave, noble, and courageous, therefore, a hero.

Quote: Beethoven

First off, I can't believe I'm responding to this ridiculous argument...LOL

Anyway, do you think that cops who get shot and die in the line of duty aren't heroes? And if/when a cop dies in the line of duty, that proves (in your mind) that cops...............shouldn't have guns? Huh???

I can't believe I'm actually having this conversation with you, but then again, aren't you the guy who believes that burglars who break into your home will never hurt you because they're very moral people who only want your money?? :D

I think cops who get shot and die while having lunch are not heroes. They might have pulled off herioc acts as being a policeman that make them previous heroes, but if, for example, those cops were on the first day of their job, getting shot in the restaurant merely because they were wearing a uniform does not make them heroes.

And yes, I'm the guy who believes that the murder rate of burglars who enter the home is extremely low, and that burglars want your stuff, not your life. If a burglar enters my home, the priority is on the health and safety of my family, not my material possessions. They can take my stuff, and they can hurt me. They have no motivation to kill me, especially if they have access to the stuff that they want.

It's called logic.

Quote: Face

I tend to agree with you colloquially, but the dictionary disagrees with us both.

Hero - n - 1. a man of distinguished courage or ability, admired for his brave deeds and noble qualities.

He was brave, noble, and courageous, therefore, a hero.

Wow, a logical argument from someone I respect!!! Finally.

Note the modifiers "distinguished" and "admired". Those terms are subjective. The cop believed that he was a hero. I disagree. He pulled a weapon, which is an act of courage. He tried to do something good, which I think every person has a responsibility of doing if they believe they could do so. The act that would have made him a hero would be to have disabled one or both of the shooters. He did neither.

So I draw the line at courageous. I wonder if his hero status would have been taken away if he voted for Obama.