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The dogma of The Immaculate Conception

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August 18th, 2014 at 10:54:05 PM permalink
1nickelmiracle Member since: Mar 5, 2013 Threads: 24 Posts: 623	Think I'm in agreement none of this will be on our "final exams".

August 19th, 2014 at 5:08:54 AM permalink

odiousgambit

Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5112

Quote: beachbumbabs
It appears to me, boymimbo, that you are confusing the Immaculate Conception of Mary with Jesus' conception, at least looking at what you've quoted.

The point of the OP. The latter is "Virgin Birth of Jesus". If boymimbo is protestant I have already given him a pass (*)

Quote: beachbumbabs
Mary ... later did bear other children begot of Joseph

Oooh, now I think you're just picking a fight with Catholics! [who do not accept this]

Quote: 1nickelmiracle
Think I'm in agreement none of this will be on our "final exams".

Least of our sins will be getting the Dogma wrong. Let's face it, most of us are going to have to sit through a big long list of much worse as our record is read from the Book of Life. It'll be like this

be sure to show this pass at the Pearly Gates or when the Book of Life is read

I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]

August 19th, 2014 at 5:12:59 AM permalink
boymimbo Member since: Mar 25, 2013 Threads: 5 Posts: 732	Sorry, I was completely wrong. I don't really care about how Mary was conceived nor is it necessary for me to believe as such.

August 19th, 2014 at 5:17:40 AM permalink

Pacomartin

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 1068
Posts: 12569

Quote: odiousgambit
Oooh, now I think you're just picking a fight with Catholics! [who do not accept this]

The doctrine of the "perpetual virginity of Mary" was first developed in the 2nd century after the death of Jesus. The bible was fully written by 80 AD. Many fundamentalist protestant reject any belief that is not traceable to the Bible. In extreme cases some Protestants regard Catholics as cultists.

There are men referred to as "brothers of Jesus" in the Bible. The phrase is open to interpretation, and may not mean literal brothers. It could mean close relatives (like first cousins), step brothers, or simply close companions.

August 19th, 2014 at 6:44:36 AM permalink

odiousgambit

Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 154
Posts: 5112

Quote: Pacomartin
It could mean

Anyone who cares to dispute "could be's" one way or the other needs to be an excellent scholar able to read the original language.

That's not me at least, so I propose in this site we allow everybody to keep to their beliefs and not look for Philistines.

And I'm not accusing anyone of doing so.

I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]

August 19th, 2014 at 7:30:15 AM permalink

Wizard

Administrator
Member since: Oct 23, 2012
Threads: 239
Posts: 6095

I knew FrG addressed this before. Here is what he said:

Quote: FrGamble
One of the big trivia questions for Catholics or anyone is what does the Immaculate Conception refer to? Quite a few people always say that it refers to Jesus's conception. However, the Immaculate Conception is meant to precisely answer this good question you pose. Obviously Jesus, being God is not born with original sin. Mary however is a different case. In order to prepare a perfect vessel for Jesus to dwell and enter into this world she received something called preveniant (sp?) grace. This basically means that she was able to experience at her conception the freedom from original sin that God will bring about through Jesus. She got the preview or I should say the advance screening of Jesus' sacrifice so that she could be preserved from sin and be the worthy womb to carry Our Lord.

I think this is better explained by the title of Mary as the New Eve and Jesus as the New Adam. Eve remember was created without original sin and so was Adam. Eve came from Adam's body. So now the tape is basically playing in reverse: an immaculate conceived (meaning free from original sin) woman brings forth from her body a new Adam who instead of ushering in sin and death this new Adam, Jesus, brings freedom and life eternal. It is a return to the Garden of Eden and a new way for us to return there as well.

-- original post

Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber

August 19th, 2014 at 8:52:51 AM permalink

Mosca

Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 22
Posts: 730

Other than discussing an interesting doctrinal point, what's the point in bashing Catholicism AGAIN, and this time also the veneration of Mary? The vast majority of Catholics are good people trying to live a good life in a fractured world. If those people take solace in the love of the Blessed Mother, it's no skin off anyone else's nose.

Yeah, yeah, perpetuation of institutionalized social corruption and sexual perversion. And a whole lot more. I get it. But mocking what you see as an easy target doesn't address any of that. All it does is reinforce differences and raise barriers to understanding. Not just you of them, but also them of you.

Go ahead, have at it. I'll say no more, have your fun. The only reason I didn't erase this is that I would feel ashamed for not speaking up. It's not like I think I can make a difference, after all.

August 19th, 2014 at 9:35:17 AM permalink
Wizard Administrator Member since: Oct 23, 2012 Threads: 239 Posts: 6095	Quote: Mosca Other than discussing an interesting doctrinal point, what's the point in bashing Catholicism AGAIN, Amen. Which religion doesn't subscribe to miracles to explain beliefs that defy science? Knowledge is Good -- Emil Faber

August 19th, 2014 at 9:41:12 AM permalink
DRich Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 51 Posts: 4969	I must be confused. I thought the Immaculate Conception was the pass from Terry Bradshaw to Frenchy Fuqua that was knocked up in the air and caught by Franco Harris who ran in for a game winning touchdown. At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.

August 19th, 2014 at 11:21:29 AM permalink
chickenman Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 0 Posts: 368	Quote: DRich I must be confused. I thought the Immaculate Conception was the pass from Terry Bradshaw to Frenchy Fuqua that was knocked up in the air and caught by Franco Harris who ran in for a game winning touchdown. Amen. He's everywhere, he's everywhere...!

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