Evolution and the Pope

Dear Evenbob if you really are too pragmatic to believe in something that can't be proven then your life must be riddled with doubt. It sounds nice to say "I'm pragmatic and everything needs to be proven", but that simply isn't how anyone lives their lives. When you know your wife loves you, when you eat food at a restaurant, when you stop at a red light, when you believe it is so and so talking to you on the telephone, etc. In these cases all you have is preponderance of evidence that points to the real possibility that you are in a loving relationship, your food is safe, the other people will stop, and the person is who they say they are - you don't have proof. Yet also in all these cases you move forward and act based on belief, faith, and trust. This is how we live our lives - not pragmatic but instinctual and reasonable. This is also what makes life enjoyable and at the same time a little risky. But as a wise man once said, "If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose."

Quote: FrGamble

in all these cases you move forward and act based on belief, faith, and trust.

Because all those things you mention have
a rock solid basis in fact, that's why I trust
them. They have proven themselves over
and over. Nobody has proven god exists
to me. All their reasons are based on speculation,
not facts.

Various studies of prayer lists have been done
by independent groups. They used sick people
who were on a church prayer list, and sick people
who weren't. The results were, no difference
in recovery or mortality rates. In fact, some
on the prayer list tended to do worse because they
know they were on the list and didn't try very hard
to get well.

If praying, especially the believed power of group
praying, does nothing at all, what's the point. What
it does is makes those praying feel better, so it does
have a benefit in that way.

Quote: Evenbob

Nobody has prove god exists to me.

It is the "to me" part of your quote that is very interesting. The other things on my list have a rock solid basis in fact to you, but what about to me? Can you prove your wife loves you to me? Because you legitimately have not experienced the reality of God you extrapolate that to say God does not exist for everyone. That would be equivalent of me saying that your wife does not love you because I have not experienced that she does. Can you see that this is unfair and illogical? Ultimately experiments or studies that I could cite that prove the opposite of yours won't mean a hill of beans until God is proven to exist to you. What you are really asking for is a personal experience that has a rock solid basis like your marriage. That can't come through a third person or a study, it has to be personal to you. You can either trust someone who does know and love God, such as for example your wife, that He is real or you can await a personal experience. If you choose the later the follow up question is are you truly open to such experience or have you already made up your mind and heart that God does not exist?

Quote: FrGamble

While God encourages us to do good He discourages us to do bad. He is trying hard but it takes two to tango. The greatest gift we have is free will and we can decide what to do no matter how much God has tipped the scales in favor of the good. No, sadly Evenbob we are to blame for our bad deeds. However, we can take some credit for our good ones.

What about "free will"? Why would God encourage anything…? You set God out earlier as a "watchmaker God" — this means God built the universe and all in it, and is sitting back and watching it as the greatest reality show of all time - God should be disinterested and merely snacking on his popcorn and Diet Coke

Quote: FrGamble

have you already made up your mind and heart that God does not exist?

You act like there is a question at all. You're
the salesman selling ice cube trays to Eskimos.
They don't need them, so you try and create
a desire for your product. Your neighbor has
them, you might need them someday, they
don't cost much, what do you have to lose.

You (not you specifically) have invented a
product, god, and now you must sell it. Most
people don't even know they need this
product until you convince them they do.
The Church did their sales by forced conversion
for hundreds of years. Now they've been
reduced to mere logic; you think you see a
creation, where is the creator hiding.

For me there is no answer because there is
no question. There never has been, I've never
wondered if god existed, I was curious why
others thought he did. I can't even contemplate
that the Christian story might be true, it's just
too bizarre. Off the charts. I'd sooner think
Lord of the Rings is a true story, it's more
believable.

Quote: aceofspades

What about "free will"? Why would God encourage anything…? You set God out earlier as a "watchmaker God" — this means God built the universe and all in it, and is sitting back and watching it as the greatest reality show of all time - God should be disinterested and merely snacking on his popcorn and Diet Coke

I have never said that I believe in the "watchmaker God", in fact I have consistently rejected that idea strongly. God is the opposite of disinterested when it comes to human beings, the crown jewel if you will of His creation. He loves us as a Heavenly Father and like any good father he discourages lots of bad behavior. He also knows that no matter what he does we ultimately have our free will.

Quote: Evenbob

You act like there is a question at all. You're
the salesman selling ice cube trays to Eskimos. (blah, blah, blah...)

A simple yes to the question if you have already made up your mind concerning God's existence would be fine. Remember Eskimos need ice cube trays, just not the ice.

Quote: FrGamble

A simple yes to the question .

I'm not being obtuse. It's a question to you
but not to me. It's obvious that god is the
cooked up answer to all mans problems.
If you don't understand something, god
must be the answer. He's the catch-all,
the go-to solver of dilemmas. One size
fits all. Thank god, blame god, ask god,
fear god, love god, give to god.

But where is he. I don't see hide nor
hair of him. Not only don't I have the
question, I don't even have the lead
up to the question. The universe has
always been here in one form or another
and so have you and I. And we always
will be. Can't you feel that in the quiet
moments? The part of you that is really
you has always existed. I guess you could
call it god. But why bother naming it at
all.

There is only one reason to believe in any
religion, and only one. Because you want
to. You can't prove them by science or
logic, in fact science and logic work against
them tooth and nail. People want to believe
them, it's as simple as that, for whatever
reason. They need to believe them, they have
to believe them. There's always been something
a little scary about that to me, the compulsion
to believe something that can't be proven.
I'm missing that gene, as are many others,
so it's a mystery to me, I guess.

Poll: 0.0% Of Young Icelanders Support Creationism

http://www.addictinginfo.org/2016/01/14/poll-0-0-of-young-icelanders-support-creationism/