"Cult of Mary"

Quote: Pacomartin

I could only find this quote from his travel book written when he went to the Holy Land in 1867

A lot of his quotes come from speeches he gave
towards the end of his life. He made a lot of
money in his career, but blew it all on the a
printing press that set it's own type and it
never worked. Bell wanted him to invest in
his phone, but Twain couldn't see any practical
use for it.

He had to go on speaking tours to keep his house
and pay his bills. A lot of his best stuff came
from these speaking engagements.

Quote: Evenbob

Yeah, not really..

Yeah, not really...

I know we have talked about this before but lets first gain some perspective. More men and women were killed in a few weeks of terror in the atheistic French Revolution than in a century of the Inquisition. We also have to remember the Church and state connection and how strong that was (unfortunately in my mind). Heresy was treason in the state's eyes, whether you were in a Middle East country or in Anglican England or in countries that embraced Protestantism. It was civil law and not the Church's canon law that could confiscate property or put to death. Specifically in Spain it had just been taken back from Muslim occupation and the atrocities committed including massacres and violence that were sadly part and parcel of warfare in that time was fresh in the minds of a renewed Catholic Spain. There was great suspicion of conversos, those who had converted when the country was retaken. There was also no doubt sinful revenge and prejudice that fueled violence against the newly converted. None of this is of course to justify the atrocities of the Spanish Inquisition, but rather to put things a historical context. Henry Charles Leo a protestant historian who studied the Inquisition once said that, "at times the Inquisition was all that stood between civilization and moral anarchy." In fact Spain in that time avoided the bloody and brutal civil wars that engulfed other states, specifically the Protestant ones. Again it was awful, but since you like to accuse the Church of believing in myths I want you to be careful about the myths of the Inquisition that abound in popular culture. Here is a challenge to you can you point to any Church teaching that every said violence or fear was a tool for conversion?

Quote: FrGamble

Yeah, not really...

I know we have talked about this before but lets first gain some perspective. More men and women were killed in a few weeks of terror in the atheistic French Revolution than in a century of the Inquisition.

There you go, then. That's a defensive response,
'Billy is naughtier than me!' I investigated this
in depth 20 years ago. There's what really
happened, and then there's the Church's
white washed squeaky clean version.

I understand your position. Unfortunately,
the Church wasn't the only one keeping
records. What really happened is well
documented. So, as the saying goes, don't
pee in my ear and try and tell me it's raining.
I know better.

I promise I won't do that if you promise to stop saying lies and claiming they are truth without any documentation or historical fact.

This had to come up eventually. Catholics
crossing themselves. It's so pagan, so
dripping with superstition and ritual,
how has it even survived into modern
times. It's a throwback to the shaman
waving his bag of chicken bones and
fairy dust around to ward off evil spirits.
You can even cross the wrong way and
really screw things up. Seriously, if you
cross from right to left, instead of left
to right, you can ruin everything. In 2015.

What is so wrong with crossing yourself, or even doing it backwards? Our orthodox brothers and sisters would be very unhappy with you saying going right to left can ruin everything!?! It helps me remember who I am and what I believe. It reminds me of Jesus and His love for me.

Quote: FrGamble

What is so wrong with crossing yourself,.

Who said it was 'wrong'. It's just weird, it's
more of this absolute obsession that Catholics
have with the cross. They wear it around their
necks, have it hanging in their homes, there
are life sized ones in most of their churches.
And they make a sign of it with their hands
at the drop of a hat. It's what superstitious
people do, surround themselves with symbols
and artifacts to ward off evil spirits, and make
strange signs in the air and on themselves.

I see women in Casinos doing it all the time,
Hitting the button on a slot and waving their
hand like a magician does, over the screen.
It's superstitious nonsense and belongs in an
era that is long past.

Superstition is a sin and as you point out somewhat silly.

Quote: FrGamble

Superstition is a sin and as you point out somewhat silly.

You think crossing yourself isn't superstition. Yet
you would say the woman waving her hand over
the slot screen is superstitious because she is asking
some unseen force to make the machine pay off.
Or the guy who carries his lucky rabbits foot and
clutches it for a win. These actions are all the same,
asking a supernatural force to help you or bless you
or whatever, crossing yourself included.

I find it interesting that the Church makes superstition
a sin as a way to separate what they do from the
superstitious actions that others indulge in. Like making
it a sin changes the Churches superstitious actions
into something else. If it walks like a duck and quacks
like a duck, it's a dang duck. Making it a sin to call it
a duck changes the duck not at all.

Here is the Church's definition of superstition:

Superstition is the deviation of religious feeling and of the practices this feeling imposes. It can even affect the worship we offer the true God, e.g., when one attributes an importance in some way magical to certain practices otherwise lawful or necessary. To attribute the efficacy of prayers or of sacramental signs to their mere external performance, apart from the interior dispositions that they demand, is to fall into superstition.