In the News II

Quote: SOOPOO

My younger son is a computer programmer. A month or so back I asked him if he could be replaced by AI in some fashion. He confidently told me that there is no chance of that. Since I can’t figure out what he actually does at work, I am hopeful he has the proper insight and is correct. I of course am not so sure. When I asked him (a few years ago) what his company could possibly need him for for 40 hours a week, he answered that he’s one of five computer programmers that work 40 hours a week there….

I can see AI for finding bugs. Already python sometimes says, “did you mean. X’ for some errors. For those who took a programming class of any kind in the 1990s it is amazing. I am currently working on a stock screen program. I cannot see AI simply creating what I am creating. Easier commands, sure. But to just say “make a program to do Y’ sorry not going to happen. Ever.

AI is getting yo be the buzzword “internet” was in the mid 1990s. People thought “internet “ was a business. An employee of mine said it was. But it wasn’t. It was just a network you could use for a business. AI is going the same way. It is a generic term. It has lots of small oarts that do this or that. It is not magic.

Quote: rxwine

I defer to your experience, but isn't there already programs programing programs for Ai?

Anyway, I think it will still be a while" before jobs hit the "traffic Light stage". Where a thing does a job for humans uncontrolled by humans day after day until it breaks.

*by a while, I mean 6 months at least

Yes, but programmers still have to write the programs that program the A.I. for writing programs. It is generally accepted that A.I. can not do anything that humans can't and it needs to be programmed to do anything. If there were no more programmers A.I. would stagnate and wouldn't advance.

What A.I. does is exactly what it has been told to do by the programmers, it just does it much faster than a human can do it.

Quote: DRich

Yes, but programmers still have to write the programs that program the A.I. for writing programs. It is generally accepted that A.I. can not do anything that humans can't and it needs to be programmed to do anything. If there were no more programmers A.I. would stagnate and wouldn't advance.

What A.I. does is exactly what it has been told to do by the programmers, it just does it much faster than a human can do it.

Did you need a new programmer to evolve from the earliest human species? There was just a process that selected the most useful model. You didn't need a programmer for every stage. Eventually you got Einstein. But we also got the town fool.

I don't think the stages were modified by a programmer.

Sorry, that's my only example, and maybe not applicable. Just interesting to me. I'm pretty sure you can be totally unnecessary to the programming procees.

Quote: DRich

Yes, but programmers still have to write the programs that program the A.I. for writing programs. It is generally accepted that A.I. can not do anything that humans can't and it needs to be programmed to do anything. If there were no more programmers A.I. would stagnate and wouldn't advance.

What A.I. does is exactly what it has been told to do by the programmers, it just does it much faster than a human can do it.

Elon Musk has said one of his fears is that when the AI learns to program as good as humans, it will be better than humans very soon and figure out that it doesn't need humans anymore.

Quote: Evenbob

Elon Musk has said one of his fears is that when the AI learns to program as good as humans, it will be better than humans very soon and figure out that it doesn't need humans anymore.

He also said: “I was really a fool here. It was a foolish and perhaps the worst and dumbest post that I’ve ever done.”

Quote: rxwine

Did you need a new programmer to evolve from the earliest human species? There was just a process that selected the most useful model. You didn't need a programmer for every stage. Eventually you got Einstein. But we also got the town fool.

I don't think the stages were modified by a programmer.

Sorry, that's my only example, and maybe not applicable. Just interesting to me. I'm pretty sure you can be totally unnecessary to the programming procees.

That is all fine until you inspect how computers work. They can only do what their software tells them to do, nothing else.

Computers are binary, 0 or 1. Think of a car that can only make 90 degree right turns or 90 degree left turns. That car will never go in a circle.

Quote: DRich

That is all fine until you inspect how computers work. They can only do what their software tells them to do, nothing else.

Computers are binary, 0 or 1. Think of a car that can only make 90 degree right turns or 90 degree left turns. That car will never go in a circle.

One of the few things you need for evolution is imperfect replication. So you make a computer program that occasionally introduces a random anomaly. when it is replicating its software, Like evolution, some will fail to run, some will do nothing useful and some will be able to go in a circle.

Quote: rxwine

One of the few things you need for evolution is imperfect replication. So you make a computer program that occasionally introduces a random anomaly. when it is replicating its software, Like evolution, some will fail to run, some will do nothing useful and some will be able to go in a circle.

But somebody has to make that computer program that introduces a random anomaly. Again, the computer can only do what it is told to do. You will always need the programmers to keep adding the functionality to the A.I. Yes, a computer could produce War and Peace by randomly selecting characters until it has a match, but someone has to program the computer to do it.

Quote: DRich

He also said: “I was really a fool here. It was a foolish and perhaps the worst and dumbest post that I’ve ever done.”

He really did say that about AI, I've heard him say it more than once. That he feared AI would learn how to program itself and be better at it than we were and not need us anymore. I fail to see why we shouldn't be afraid of that. He's not talking about it happening day after tomorrow, but as fast as things are going it could easily be 20 years from now.


"Is it possible that AI will get so advanced that it will write its own code for new AI that humans can't decipher anymore?

It’s kinda that way already. Although we don’t have true “intelligence” the advanced neural network software that we have trains itself by setting up the properties of it’s own neural network “weights” - which is “programming” of a sort. A fully working neural network is a “black box” to humans - we can’t understand exactly how they do what they do."

If this is happening now, in 15 or 20 years we're not even going to recognize what's going on.

Quote: DRich

But somebody has to make that computer program that introduces a random anomaly. Again, the computer can only do what it is told to do. You will always need the programmers to keep adding the functionality to the A.I. Yes, a computer could produce War and Peace by randomly selecting characters until it has a match, but someone has to program the computer to do it.

You're one of those damn creationist.

See, I'm only arguing we don't need the programmer eventually, nothing about the first one out of the gate. It's like coronavirus. Maybe it needed a creation, but it sure didn't need another one to keep going. And it replicated and changed. Sure, like most things, it never gets beyond a certain stage. Good think too, or we'd be needing tanks and jets to fight it by now.