Climate Change -- conspiracy theory or is it time we all drive a Prius?

December 7th, 2024 at 2:53:46 PM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 200
Posts: 20763
As I know how OG enjoys alarmist Climate articles. Voila. Out of New Scientist issue. (Too lazy to fix all the bad copy/paste formatting, sorry)

Quote:
IF ALL our fear and uncertainty over climate change could be distilled into a single statistic, then arguably it was delivered to an emergency summit on the future of the Antarctic last month.
Nerilie Abram at the Australian
National University, Canberra, opened her presentation with a slide headlined "Antarctic sea ice has declined precipitously since 2014, and in July 2023 exceeded a minus 7 sigma event".
At times, the noise of the
500 researchers who gathered for the Australian Antarctic Research Conference in Tasmania - which ran from 19 to 22 November-was overwhelming. as they tried to make sense of the unprecedented shifts underway at the bottom of the globe. But as Abram's slide sunk in, it was as if the whole room was holding its breath.
Put simply, a minus 7 sigma event, meaning seven standard deviations below the average, should be all but impossible, says Ed Doddridge at the Australian Antarctic Program Partnership, who works with Abram.
It is "actually really hard to convey just how extreme this difference was, how extreme the low sea ice extent was", he says.
One way is to liken it to the concept of a one-in-100-year flood, for example. "If you run those sorts of statistics for Antarctic sea ice last year, you get a number somewhere between one in 7.5 million years and one in
700 billion years," says Doddridge.
Given that this event has occurred, something must be wrong with our models. They just aren't able to predict how radically and possibly permanently the Antarctic environment has changed, he says.
The entire Antarctic research community is now scrambling to understand what will happen to
Drilling for ice cores and then transporting them for analysis is helping to reveal the health of the Antarctic
17.16
million square kilometres was the maximum Antarctic sea ice extent in 2024
1.5
metres of sea level rise would happen globally if the Denman glacier melted away
45
years of Arctic ice loss is equivalent to what has been lost in Antarctica in a decade
the sea ice in the coming years and what the implications will be for everything from local ecosystems to global weather.
So just how bad is it? According to the US National Snow and Ice Data Centre, the 7 sigma event was the lowest maximum annual ice extent since records began in 1979.
This year was the second lowest, with Antarctic sea ice "stalling out" at 17.16 million square kilometres, or just 200,000 square kilometres more than last year.
Remarkably, that is 1.55 million square kilometres below the expected average extent. In other words, in the past two years an area of ice nearly 6.5 times the size of the UK has disappeared.
Another way to imagine it is that the ring of sea ice that forms every winter around the entire
Antarctic continent has contracted by an average of 120 kilometres, says Abram.
While much of the world's focus has been on the loss of winter sea
ice in the Arctic, Abram told the conference, in just a decade the decrease in the Antarctic is equivalent to that lost in the northern hemisphere in the past 45 years. Even more alarming is the projection that Antarctica could possibly experience summers that are essentially free of sea ice before even the Arctic, which is projected to reach that point before 2050.
"It's really serious," says Abram.
"This is a major part of the Earth's system that is changing, and it's changing incredibly quickly. We don't fully understand why it's changed so quickly, and that worries me in terms of the sort of surprises that might be ahead."
Global effects
Of particular concern is that what happens in Antarctica doesn't stay in Antarctica. The Southern Ocean around the continent has currents that drive the distribution of heat,
8| New Scientist |7 December 2024
oxygen, nutrients and carbon dioxide as they are transported around the globe. "There is now modelling evidence and observational data that points to a slowdown of that overturning circulation around Antarctica," says Abram.
What that means for the world's
climate and the wildlife that relies on this circulation is still unknown. However, researchers expect impacts throughout the food chain, from krill up to whales and penguins. There have already been mass deaths of emperor penguin (Aptenodytes forsteri) chicks after the early break-up of sea ice.
Nearby continents such as
Australia are already beginning to see the impacts of climate disruptions in the form of dry, hot spells as well as winter blasts of cold when the southern polar vortex is pushed north.
Alex Fraser at the University of Tasmania says stormier weather in the Southern Ocean will also result in more waves, which will probably lead to greater damage to the less solid outer edges of the sea ice, known as the marginal ice zone- a worrying feedback loop.
The sea ice still present in Antarctica may be in worse shape than even the loss of coverage suggests, says Doddridge, because researchers suspect it is thinning.
"As it gets thinner, it gets weaker and it becomes more susceptible to wind break-up, to wave break-up and to not growing back. We may be rapidly getting to the threshold where it all smashes," he says.
Beyond fears over sea ice, an even bigger concern is looming: what will happen to the kilometres-thick ice sheets that cover Antarctica's landmass?
Normally, sea ice plays a crucial role in preserving these sheets,
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both by forming a protective apron around the continent that keeps ocean waves away and by keeping water around the continent cooler.
"If we start to break up or to disintegrate these ice shelves,
"This is a major part of the Earth's system that is changing, and it's changing incredibly quickly"
the ice on the continent can start to flow more quickly into the ocean," says Sarah Thompson, also at the University of Tasmania. "So we get a much larger magnitude sea level rise, more quickly."
Thompson spent the last
Antarctic summer at the Denman-Shackleton ice shelf and says there is growing evidence that it is being weakened by warmer water intruding under the areas where the glacier extends over the ocean.
That is bad news- if the Denman glacier were to completely melt
then it would contribute 1.5 metres
to global sea level rise.
To investigate, her team drilled through 200 metres of ice to reach the ocean below, measuring the 800 metres of water there for the first time.
The results were sobering.
"We knew that warmer modified circumpolar deep water was in the vicinity, but we had no idea whether it was actually getting into the cavity under the ice shelf or not," says Thompson.
"Our results now show that it is." While it is just one data point, she says it does appear that there is significant melting of the glacier on its underside.
Warm water intrusion
"We think that at that site, we're probably getting about 2 metres of melting at the base of this ice shelf on an annual basis," says Thompson. The fear is that number may grow as sea ice
Chilling statistics
The Antarctic's maximum sea ice levels hit a record minimum in 2023, and fared little better in 2024, compared with long-term averages
keon:
10 September 2023
South
America
Both dates
1 Average 1981-2010
East
Antarctica
Antarctica
retreats and warmer waters intrude further under the shelf.
"As soon as we remove the sea ice cover, you have more absorption of solar radiation into the ocean. The winds and the swell can have a greater impact on the ice shelfitself, so there are a number of positive feedbacks that happen as soon as you remove that ice cover," she says.
"You can get these really big ecological tipping points because ofloss of sea ice," says Sharon Robinson at the University of Wollongong, Australia. "You can bring all those things together and there's a chance that we don't notice the connections until the system has really gone catastrophically bad."
What unfolds for the global climate in the coming decades is, to a significant extent, going to depend on whether supposed one-in-a-billion-year events like the 7 sigma sea ice contraction continue to happen every year.
The consensus of researchers at the summit is that, while we may see years with less or more sea ice, a tipping point has been passed.
This means there is an extreme urgency in understanding all the consequences of the regime change underway.
"I don't think it's going back to normal," says Abram. "I think the evidence is pointing to the rapid loss of sea ice because the ocean is taking up heat. Once you get that heat into the ocean, it holds on to it."
Doddridge says that something may have permanently shifted, and the maximum sea ice extent is unlikely to return to pre-2023 levels. "We played that game in 2024, waiting for sea ice to return to normal, and it didn't happen." He sums up the situation with one very simple, very unscientific word: "Grim."
7 December 2024
"Facts are whatever I say they are." - Trump
December 7th, 2024 at 7:10:06 PM permalink
DRich
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 55
Posts: 5602
I am not one to care much about climate change. but I will be pissed if all that ice melts and cools down the Caribbean waters.
At my age a Life In Prison sentence is not much of a detrrent.
December 18th, 2024 at 4:34:58 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 136
Posts: 19787
December 18th, 2024 at 7:05:05 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 162
Posts: 5953
if you show that you have to acknowledge a very small amount of CO2 can be concerning, and not just for climate

that came from me? LOL...

yep but remember I am against panicking and against crackpot ideas on dealing with it ... and against activists and journalists using weather aberrations as 'proof' we need to panic
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
December 18th, 2024 at 7:12:25 AM permalink
odiousgambit
Member since: Oct 28, 2012
Threads: 162
Posts: 5953
as for Antarctica, it's hard to be counterfactual to the claims when you don't have counterfacts

sounds panicky though
I'm Still Standing, Yeah, Yeah, Yeah [it's an old guy chant for me]
December 18th, 2024 at 11:48:34 AM permalink
DoubleGold
Member since: Jan 26, 2023
Threads: 34
Posts: 3404
Quote: AZDuffman
https://scontent-lga3-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/469822070_1676075689624558_2061250128781195860_n.jpg?stp=dst-jpg_p526x296_tt6&_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=-zrWlM7kWaUQ7kNvgFFpRtF&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent-lga3-2.xx&_nc_gid=ABSDtdRW3JXKlGsUhbUAH-3&oh=00_AYC4RJZ96eV5Lq9ILtqtee1QNzE7VKJkw0SDzE6cTqOLMQ&oe=6768896B


Image linking not working......




That argon representation was interesting.

I asked Duck Duck searcher why it was there:

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Argon is present in the atmosphere because it is produced from the radioactive decay of potassium-40 in Earth's crust over billions of years. It constitutes about 0.934% of the atmosphere, making it the third most abundant gas.

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December 18th, 2024 at 2:18:31 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 136
Posts: 19787
Quote: DoubleGold
That argon representation was interesting.

I asked Duck Duck searcher why it was there:

-----------------

Argon is present in the atmosphere because it is produced from the radioactive decay of potassium-40 in Earth's crust over billions of years. It constitutes about 0.934% of the atmosphere, making it the third most abundant gas.

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I have to admit I had no idea on the Argon. Shows that the planet will handle itself over time.
War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength
December 18th, 2024 at 2:34:22 PM permalink
DoubleGold
Member since: Jan 26, 2023
Threads: 34
Posts: 3404
Quote: AZDuffman
I have to admit I had no idea on the Argon. Shows that the planet will handle itself over time.



We are going to die because of Argon. :)

Let's see if we can scare folks out of their money by creating an argon market. :)

We could front run the trades and then kickback Rothschild. :)

Just think how much cleaner the earth will be if we make billions. :)

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Dangers of Argon

That argon is chemically inert does not, unfortunately, mean that it is free of potential health hazards. Argon gas can irritate the skin and the eyes on contact, and in its liquid form it can cause frostbite (there are relatively few uses of argon oil, and "argan oil," a common ingredient in cosmetics, is not even remotely the same as argon). High levels of argon gas in the air in a closed environment can displace oxygen and lead to respiratory problems ranging from mild to severe, depending on how much argon is present. This results in symptoms of suffocation including headache, dizziness, confusion, weakness and tremors at the milder end, and coma and even death in the most extreme cases.

In cases of known skin or eye exposure, rinsing and flushing with warm water is the preferred treatment. When argon has been inhaled, standard respiratory support, including oxygenation by mask, may be required to being blood oxygen levels back to normal; getting the affected person out of the argon-rich environment is of course necessary as well.

Read More: https://www.sciencing.com/list-6105110-five-major-uses-argon/

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December 27th, 2024 at 10:16:39 AM permalink
rxwine
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 200
Posts: 20763
Space the final frontier.

Quote:
The area surrounding Earth, once a vast and empty expanse, has become increasingly congested with human-made objects. From defunct satellites to discarded rocket components, space debris has reached unprecedented levels, posing a severe threat to the future of space exploration and the technologies we rely on daily. Experts warn that we may be approaching a tipping point known as Kessler Syndrome, where cascading collisions between debris create a chain reaction, rendering Earth’s orbit unusable for decades or even centuries.

This potential disaster could disrupt global communications, weather forecasting, GPS navigation, and even space travel itself. The urgency of this issue grows with every satellite launch, as the risk of a catastrophic event steadily increases. While steps are being taken to address the problem, the complexity of mitigating space debris on a global scale presents a daunting challenge.

What Is Kessler Syndrome?
Kessler Syndrome, first proposed by NASA scientist Donald Kessler in 1978, describes a scenario in which the density of space debris becomes so high that collisions between objects trigger a cascading effect. Each collision generates more fragments, exponentially increasing the likelihood of subsequent collisions. This runaway chain reaction could make Earth’s orbit impassable, halting satellite operations and preventing future space missions.
"Facts are whatever I say they are." - Trump
December 27th, 2024 at 10:50:57 AM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 146
Posts: 25685
Quote: rxwine
Space the final frontier.


More blah blah blah. One thing we've learned is that when humans are presented with a problem they'll find a solution. I remember in the 1950s and '60s all the talk was that the world was going to starve to death from overpopulation. Nope, we now have more food then we know what to do with and even more people than we thought possible. We found the solution to food production.

When I was getting therapy last spring after my accident I got to talking to a guy in his 80s in the waiting room and he used to work for the Department of Agriculture at the University of Minnesota. He said that his specialty was hybrids of rice and corn and he has a doctorate in it. He said during the Depression the average bushels of corn per acre was 25. In the 1950s it was 40. Today because of hybrids the average in the United States is 160 bushels per acre. Under the right circumstances it's possible to get 600 bushels per acre. Some guy in Virginia set the record a couple years ago with 619 bushels per acre on his property. The same explosion is true for soybeans and rice and this is why the world is not starving to death like they predicted. And this is why if there's cluttering in space they will figure out a way to make it go away because we always find solutions if we try hard enough.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.