In The News Today...

Just a blurb I heard somewhere. Sorry I don't have a cite for it. Long about 1937, the lands the terrorists are occupying had been over-grazed and over-farmed. The entire area was facing bankruptcy and famine in the midst of the Depression. So the gov't stepped in and BOUGHT the land from the ranchers, for what was supposedly just over fair market value for the acreage had it not been despoiled. Saved them all while making it federal land.

Irony. It's a gift that keeps on giving.

Face, I have observed that when something somehow becomes permanently controversial, Truth will be a casualty. Neither side will tell the truth or admit the other side has a point about anything. If one of those sides happens to represent a view you sympathize with, you have to remember that they feel they don't dare tell the truth either. Just my 2 cents.

I think the terrorists in Oregon really did not think this through.
They probably thought Foxnews would put them on a pedestal, instead no Hannity support and being grilled on the Kelly File
They thought they would have the support of the locals, the reality, the locals want the terrorists to leave
They thought they would be dealing with the evil govt, instead they are dealing with a sheriff that has the support of locals
They are in Oregon due to the Hammond case yet the Hammonds don't want their support and want them to go home.
They met with the sheriff yesterday and presented their demands.
Their demands on the sheriff are absurd. They want the sheriff to change all the laws regarding land and release the Hammonds.
He's a sheriff. He cant change the laws. He doesn't have custody of the Hammonds
These terrorists did not think this through
They need to put their tail between their legs and just leave, get arrested eventually at home and face the music for their terrorist actions breaking the law

I looked up the CDC Mortality Rates for 2013. The number of deaths for "Assault (homicide) by discharge of firearms" - total number was 11,208. Not sure what criteria Obama was using for his 36K figure in his speech.

I think a much more telling figure I think from the data is the break down by race. White deaths are 4,484 Black deaths are 6,442. The difference is other races. Everyone can spin the above figures as they want to support their entrenched positions but I think that stat says much more about economic and cultural differences rather than the number of guns.

Mortality Rates

Quote: kenarman

I looked up the CDC Mortality Rates for 2013. The number of deaths for "Assault (homicide) by discharge of firearms" - total number was 11,208. Not sure what criteria Obama was using for his 36K figure in his speech.

I think a much more telling figure I think from the data is the break down by race. White deaths are 4,484 Black deaths are 6,442. The difference is other races. Everyone can spin the above figures as they want to support their entrenched positions but I think that stat says much more about economic and cultural differences rather than the number of guns.

Mortality Rates

Your link does not work

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms in 2013

Number has probably gone up over the last 2 years so 36k sound about right


Now the Oregon Governor has spoken out about the terrorists
"To members of the Burns-Paiute Tribe and residents of Harney County who seek a return to normal life: I hear you, and I agree that what started as a peaceful and legal protest has become unlawful," Brown said in her statement. "It was instigated by outsiders whose tactics we Oregonians don't agree with. Those individuals illegally occupying the Malheur Wildlife Refuge need to decamp immediately and be held accountable."
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/01/decamp_immediately_kate_brown.html#incart_big-photo

Quote: odiousgambit

Face, I have observed that when something somehow becomes permanently controversial, Truth will be a casualty. Neither side will tell the truth or admit the other side has a point about anything. If one of those sides happens to represent a view you sympathize with, you have to remember that they feel they don't dare tell the truth either. Just my 2 cents.

I dig, but are you saying that about the people in Oregon and/or their supporters? If so, I still dig, I just can't say that's the case here. Reason being, and reason for my stepping back, is because I know nothing. I heard about a thing, I read one, very long transcription of events, I formed an opinion. That's it. I haven't followed up, or heard another thing; my only contact with it has been arguing in this here thread.

As I said, that one blurb painted a picture, and if that picture matches what's actually happening, then I'll stand by my support. But if something's in there I don't know about and I eventually see it, I'll surely cede the argument and admit my mistake

Quote: terapined

Quote: kenarman

I looked up the CDC Mortality Rates for 2013. The number of deaths for "Assault (homicide) by discharge of firearms" - total number was 11,208. Not sure what criteria Obama was using for his 36K figure in his speech.

I think a much more telling figure I think from the data is the break down by race. White deaths are 4,484 Black deaths are 6,442. The difference is other races. Everyone can spin the above figures as they want to support their entrenched positions but I think that stat says much more about economic and cultural differences rather than the number of guns.

Mortality Rates

Your link does not work

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_violence_in_the_United_States
a total of 33,169 deaths related to firearms in 2013

Number has probably gone up over the last 2 years so 36k sound about right


Now the Oregon Governor has spoken out about the terrorists
"To members of the Burns-Paiute Tribe and residents of Harney County who seek a return to normal life: I hear you, and I agree that what started as a peaceful and legal protest has become unlawful," Brown said in her statement. "It was instigated by outsiders whose tactics we Oregonians don't agree with. Those individuals illegally occupying the Malheur Wildlife Refuge need to decamp immediately and be held accountable."
http://www.oregonlive.com/politics/index.ssf/2016/01/decamp_immediately_kate_brown.html#incart_big-photo

The number of deaths from firearms is much larger than the homicide number. The total number includes all most as many suicides as homicides. You also have accidental shootings as well as some other categories not well defined.

The point is that Obama uses the total figure and that person no takes that as the number of murders (homicides). Not sure why the link won't work I tried again and it won't let me link to the PDF file with the complete tables.

Of course you can accept the Wikipedia figure at face value rather than the CDC numbers.

The wikipedia page matched the number you provided exactly for gun homicides.

It says there were nearly twice as many gun suicides, and I think about 500 accidents.

There were also about 1000 "unknown" if I recall correctly.

All of that should add up to about 36,000.

Quote: Dalex64

The wikipedia page matched the number you provided exactly for gun homicides.

It says there were nearly twice as many gun suicides, and I think about 500 accidents.

There were also about 1000 "unknown" if I recall correctly.

All of that should add up to about 36,000.

Thanks for confirming my number. My point in the OP was that Obama was saying something had to be done and using the school shootings as a reason. No one can justify the school shootings and I would execute anyone doing such an act. The problem is that these random attacks are a very small number of the total homicides and throwing out the 36K number is only to fire up the mathematically challenged people. This is done by everybody now trying to justify their position even scientists massage how they present their stats to amplify what they like and downplay what goes against their own bias. It drives me crazy.

Vaccination
Majority of health professionals and scientists support vaccination
You have some wing-nuts against
ok
Mark Zuckerburg gets his baby vaccinated
Controversy?

http://www.morningticker.com/2016/01/uproar-after-mark-zuckerberg-of-facebook-seen-vaccinating-baby/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link

Its absurd, those against need to mind their own dumb business
Wingnuts outraged that everybody else isn't a wingnut LOL