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Quote: AZDuffman

Doctors take an oath and are supposed to help the patient in front of them. Again, not being vaccinated does not affect other people's health. Your saying it does affect it does not make it so.

Your saying so doesn't make it so either.

Quote:

The "science" is simple. The diseases have a risk. The vaccination has a risk. The patient has a right to weigh each risk. Not sure why you think I do not "respect science." I do think for myself and don't just but what the scientists are selling. That is just common sense.

This whole line of discussion was already beaten to death in another thread, BTW.

Sort of fake rationality I've come to expect, AZD.

Quote: TheCesspit

Sort of fake rationality I've come to expect, AZD.

Right--you tell me to "listen to the scientists" and I instead use my own mind. Sorry, I have been lied to by my government and the medical profession enough that I prefer the later.

The supreme court upheld the state's rights to enact compulsory vaccination laws, so it is up to your state as to whether or not you have the right to refuse to be vaccinated.

https://supreme.justia.com/cases/federal/us/197/11/case.html

Quote: TheCesspit

Incorrect. Not getting vaccinated lowers the overall immunity (e.g. herd immunity), and can have dangerous effects for those yet to be vaccinated. Lower vaccination levels result in diseases more likely to spread in the population as a whole, making those yet to be vaccinated, or with compromised immune systems far more likely to suffer from diseases that can kill. In short, it's not only harming yourself.

Doctors should have right to refuse clinic treatment to unvaccinated individuals, if not refuse general treatment to those who put the health of their other patients at risk.

My immune system is compromised. I wait weeks to set up for a ct scan and arrive on time.

Since cancer is such big business the clinic is adding on and I have to take a shuttle to the clinic where the ct's with contrast are performed. I wait in a room full of old people hacking and coughing. I get to the hallway to the scanner and a nurse is sitting there hacking, coughing and blowing snot. I ask her if she is still communicable, and she replies "I don't think so", it is starting to go away and besides that, its all over town.

Where is the doctor here concerned about my health, and letting these nurses stay at work this sick, with all the compromised patients? An un-vaccinated baby is no more at risk, than these compromised old people, guaranteed. And most likely they all had the recommended vaccines at the given time that they were being vaccinated. I did as well, but I haven't updated for 50 years. Kids now entering grade school are expected to have 25 vaccines.

Many of these vaccines are made using aborted fetal tissue. Others have virus in the vaccines causing viral overload. Would you have all the old compromised people carry a vaccine card with them? What about the millions of immigrants and refugee's?

Well, Petro, you should complain about that situation. A lot of clinics and hospitals want people wearing masks who are sick like that. The place I go provides them, you don't need to bring you own.

Quote: rxwine

Well, Petro, you should complain about that situation. A lot of clinics and hospitals want people wearing masks who are sick like that. The place I go provides them, you don't need to bring you own.

You are right, imo. There are boxes of those masks around for the taking. I considered it and should have put one on.

I finally ended up at a job with some paid sick leave. It irritated me to no end that other guys came in "blowing chunks", saving their sick leave to use on vacation. Same way with schools being used as a place to drop sick kids.

I support organized labor but imo, if people come in to work that way, while they can obviously pass germs, than they should forfeit they're sick leave at the very least.

I was making an example that although herd immunity sounds wonderful, most people die from the flu, if by contracted disease. The flu vaccines are for last years flu, pneumonia vaccines are for a specific pneumonia. I have seen plenty of people get the flu because of the vaccine or in spite of it. Lost our FIL to pneumonia even though he got those vaccines as well.

Will the times before the vaccines -- I still remember reading some passages about towns having so many dead they were stacking coffins down the middle of the streets.

Of course, it doesn't make sense to me that freedom from vaccines can lead to new rounds of diseases we practically eliminated. I can understand fear, but it's hard to make common sense out those kind of results.

I never actually had whooping cough, but I can remember having some coughs as a kid so violent you can barely catch your breath during it and eventually just exhausted. Very scary to feel that way.

Quote: terapined

Vaccination
Majority of health professionals and scientists support vaccination
You have some wing-nuts against
ok
Mark Zuckerburg gets his baby vaccinated
Controversy?

http://www.morningticker.com/2016/01/uproar-after-mark-zuckerberg-of-facebook-seen-vaccinating-baby/?utm_source=fark&utm_medium=website&utm_content=link

Its absurd, those against need to mind their own dumb business
Wingnuts outraged that everybody else isn't a wingnut LOL

Quote: AZDuffman

Right--you tell me to "listen to the scientists" and I instead use my own mind. Sorry, I have been lied to by my government and the medical profession enough that I prefer the later.

The point I was making is
Mark Zuckerburg is using his own mind and has the right to vaccinate his child
The absurdity is people complaining that he is using his mind and complaining about his right to vaccinate
Its not about the govt, its about absurd people complaining that Zuzkerburg is exercising his rights.

Quote: rxwine

Will the times before the vaccines -- I still remember reading some passages about towns having so many dead they were stacking coffins down the middle of the streets.

Of course, it doesn't make sense to me that freedom from vaccines can lead to new rounds of diseases we practically eliminated. I can understand fear, but it's hard to make common sense out those kind of results.

I never actually had whooping cough, but I can remember having some coughs as a kid so violent you can barely catch your breath during it and eventually just exhausted. Very scary to feel that way.

When COPD [or other] progresses to a certain point, victims can't help but consider what a fish feels like out of water. I have had a couple of those really bad coughs and I agree, it is frightening. I am considering getting a shingles shot? I don't believe in getting a flu shot personally?

Here in northern AZ. there has been a resurgence of rocky mountain spotted fever, [no cure] bad enough there were warnings in the media but they didn't want to say which county had it the worst, I presume so as not to hurt tourism?

Many of the cottontail rabbits [here] have some kind of plague and are in everyone's yard. The desert rats and mice are carrying deadly Hunta virus. Just the desert wind itself carries "valley fever" which can cause death or partial lung removal.

I think whatever is the status quo now is working pretty well. People have objections to receiving vaccine from fetal tissue [I don't] or whatever their reasons are. We can't protect everybody from themselves. It seems more of a control issue to me, than real concern about peoples health? This may be hype, but there are reports of Mercury in vaccines. http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-caught-hiding-data-showing-mercury-in-vaccines-linked-to-autism/

If Lilly or Perdu were actually concerned about the nations health, they wouldn't have fought for patent longevity in the TPP agreement keeping many medicines from being generic for another twenty years. Something doesn't add up. That one diabetes medicine just jumped from under 10$ to 850$? So it isn't the health they are concerned with.

I believe the .gov approached national healthcare from the wrong end. If they wanted everyone to have access they should have shortened up the patent length and let Medicare negotiate lower prices rather than force the ACA onto everybody. The hospital I was whining about earlier is Dr. owned, and it is obvious when using the services, versus a non profit like the Mayo. Health is patient responsibility as uncomfortable as that is. Good health just can't be forced on people regardless if they have had their vaccines.

No go zone in Oregon continues caused by white conservative gun nut outsiders.
They do not have the support of local residents.
They are now stalking residents and trying to intimidate the sheriff

http://www.oregonlive.com/oregon-standoff/2016/01/oregon_standoff_harney_county.html#incart_big-photo

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/sheriff_managing_oregon_stando.html#incart_big-photo