Gigafactory

GM is experimenting with a car subscription service. You pay a monthly fee, about what a lease would cost, and can get a car for a day or two when you need one (I forget how long the period is). This works with their Cadillac division as yet only. But I think it's a good idea. You don't need to worry about repairs and such, for eon thing, and can pick different models. Say you get a sedan for driving to a dinner one evening, and a minivan for a weekend trip.

Quote: Nareed

You pay a monthly fee, about what a lease would cost, and can get a car for a day or two when you need one (I forget how long the period is).

Short term rentals have proved very unpopular. When I was young, my roommate had a company car that he could use for personal business in the metro area for minimal cost. But he wasn't allowed to drive it out of the metro area. I told him he was crazy to get a personal car, as the roughly 5-10 weekends he left the city he could rent a car for far less money and hassle at the end of the year. But he chose to buy a beater instead that was always breaking down.

Quote: Pacomartin

Short term rentals have proved very unpopular.

Yup.

But imagine if you will, full irony intended, an Uber for cars ;)

Say you pop the app and order a car. One's delivered to your door within an hour and off you go for three days wherever you want, with unlimited mileage, no extra charges, and no hassles with insurance or repairs, though you do pay for fuel.

Car share programs are doing fine in Vancouver. Three companies are set up in greater Vancouver and the city provides dedicated parking areas for them. The largest has 700 Smart Cars in it's fleet. It is easy for the tourists to use as well and can be more economical than a regular rental because you have no parking charges which can be quite expensive in downtown with even hotel guests paying $30 plus for parking.

Quote: kenarman

Car share programs are doing fine in Vancouver. Three companies are set up in greater Vancouver and the city provides dedicated parking areas for them. The largest has 700 Smart Cars in it's fleet. It is easy for the tourists to use as well and can be more economical than a regular rental because you have no parking charges which can be quite expensive in downtown with even hotel guests paying $30 plus for parking.

The idea is clearly finding its footing. The automakers for sure believe that it is coming for all the money they are dropping into "mobility." Personally, I think it is too early and we will have a 1999-2000 internet-style shakeout and by 2022 they will be saying, "what were we thinking?!"

There is some sense to car-sharing for dense, urban areas with high incomes. But they are too much pie-in-da-sky at present to be taken serious.

Quote: kenarman

Car share programs are doing fine in Vancouver.

I wonder how autonomous cars will change car ownership.

The theory, or ideal, is for car-sharing small, practical cars for city driving. This makes perfect sense, but ideals rarely translate to reality. If you travel a lot, for example, and the car drives itself, you might be better off with a van equipped with a bed, couch and maybe a small toilet. So maybe people will own a personal car for trips, convenience, etc. and use car-sharing for city driving where it makes sense.

We'll see.

Quote: kenarman

Car share programs are doing fine in Vancouver. Three companies are set up in greater Vancouver and the city provides dedicated parking areas for them. The largest has 700 Smart Cars in it's fleet. It is easy for the tourists to use as well and can be more economical than a regular rental because you have no parking charges which can be quite expensive in downtown with even hotel guests paying $30 plus for parking.

Not exactly a free market application, with hotel guests paying $30 plus for parking.

Quote: buzzardknot

Not exactly a free market application, with hotel guests paying $30 plus for parking.

Not sure what your post means. The car share drivers pay nothing for parking when it is in the provided car share spaces. Hotel guests pay for parking at their hotel be it their own vehicle or a regular rental. The guests have no reason to bring the car share vehicle into the hotel parkade.

Tesla has released the PowerWall II.

The PowerWall I was 7kWh and cost $3000 or $3500 and had no inverter. The PowerWall II has 14 kWh and cost $5500, but it includes the inverter. So on the face of it it looks like a much better deal.

But the warranty seems to be much worse. While it is guaranteed to last 10 years, it is only under warranty for 37 MWh of aggregate throughput.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/Powerwall%202_AC_Warranty_USA_1-3.pdf

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong, but that sounds like a terrible deal!

For 37,000kWh at $5500 that means it costs $0.149 per kWh to run power through this battery. Even if you get your energy for free (a ridiculous assumption) and you don't consider the installation cost (~$1500) the price of $0.149 per kWh s higher than most people pay an electric company in the USA (except for a few expensive places like Hawaii).

So if you can't even fill it up and empty it for less than you pay an electric utility, how would it save you money in any realistic scenario?

Quote: Pacomartin

Tesla has released the PowerWall II.

The PowerWall I was 7kWh and cost $3000 or $3500 and had no inverter. The PowerWall II has 14 kWh and cost $5500, but it includes the inverter. So on the face of it it looks like a much better deal.

But the warranty seems to be much worse. While it is guaranteed to last 10 years, it is only under warranty for 37 MWh of aggregate throughput.
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/pdfs/powerwall/Powerwall%202_AC_Warranty_USA_1-3.pdf

Somebody please correct me if I am wrong, but that sounds like a terrible deal!

For 37,000kWh at $5500 that means it costs $0.149 per kWh to run power through this battery. Even if you get your energy for free (a ridiculous assumption) and you don't consider the installation cost (~$1500) the price of $0.149 per kWh s higher than most people pay an electric company in the USA (except for a few expensive places like Hawaii).

So if you can't even fill it up and empty it for less than you pay an electric utility, how would it save you money in any realistic scenario?

Paco you description say 37 MWh not 37 KWh which would be much more reasonable.