Yet another aviation thread.

Another interesting bit from the Boom interview is how they plan to deal with the noise issue.

For starters, noting in Boom's design even tackles the noise issue, past perhaps the fact that current engines are quieter. Certainly nothing even addresses the infamous Sonic Boom (TM). So the assumption is that any viable supersonic airliner coming from Boom will, like the Concorde before it, be restricted to flights over water.

The strategy lies in the fare, apparently.

I haven't verified the figures (and I won't), but the claim is Concorde cost the equivalent of $20 grand, while Boom aims for a tag of $5 grand, both on NYC-London and/or NYC-Paris, the two most popular transatlantic routes. Figures aside, Boom aims for the same price as a business class ticket, and alleges Concorde was much more expensive than that.

So this means, if true, that business leaders and politicians will fly supersonic aircraft on some trips (if Boom flies at all). When these influential people realize they take longer flying from New York to LA than from new York to Paris, they'll want to change things.

It might even work.

Quote: Nareed

the CEO of the unfortunately named Boom company trying to produce a commercial supersonic jet, said in a recent interview with Real Clear Future, he envisions a 200-passenger supersonic liner. That sounds good, until you realize that's on the small size for a wide body, or dense packing of a narrow body. I hope traffic doesn't negate the time gained by Mach 2.2+...

The Concorde had a capacity of 100 passengers and 2.5 tonnes of cargo and a fuel capacity 26,286 Imperial gallons. That works out to 263 imperial gallons per person.

The Boom aircraft has a capacity of around 45 passengers and an unknown fuel capacity in number of gallons per person. Clearly the overall capacity is going to be smaller than the Concorde, but on a per person basis, I wonder if it will be lower?

The A340-500 that began the NYC to Singapore route in 2003 has a max fuel capacity 56,870 gallons. when they reconfigured in 2008 to 100 passengers, that worked out to 569 gallons per passenger, a number which will probably remain an all time record.


I just think the amount of fuel per person for an LAX to NRT run with a 45 passenger supersonic jet would be ridiculous. As ultimately the real payoff with supersonic aircraft is going to be on trans-Pacific flights, I would think 200 passengers is the minimum size worth considering.

Quote: Pacomartin

The Concorde had a capacity of 100 passengers and 2.5 tonnes of cargo and a fuel capacity 26,286 Imperial gallons. That works out to 263 imperial gallons per person.

Did it really burn more fuel taxiing to the runway than a 737 doe sin one hour of flight? If it did, why not outfit it with a tug all the way to the runway?

Quote:

The Boom aircraft has a capacity of around 45 passengers and an unknown fuel capacity in number of gallons per person. Clearly the overall capacity is going to be smaller than the Concorde, but on a per person basis, I wonder if it will be lower

The selling point is price. IMO, 45 passengers is a large number for seats priced at business class level. More like the Banker's Shuttle, really (BTW, something hilarious happened to it recently <w>). Which may be what Boom does at first, though I'm not sure how likely that is if Virgin Atlantic is the launch customer. We'll see.

Quote:

I just think the amount of fuel per person for an LAX to NRT run with a 45 passenger supersonic jet would be ridiculous. As ultimately the real payoff with supersonic aircraft is going to be on trans-Pacific flights, I would think 200 passengers is the minimum size worth considering.

Could you make a few stops along the way? It should still be faster.

Quote: Nareed

Could you make a few stops along the way? It should still be faster.

Yes, it probably would be faster than a nonstop subsonic, especially if they make special arrangements in Anchorage to allow a quick refuel with no passengers permitted to embark or disembark. No doubt Boom is hoping that some airline will do just that.



JFK - NRT = 6,745 mi
JFK - ANC (3,386 mi) + ANC - NRT (3,433 mi)= 6,819 mi (additional 74 miles over nonstop)

LAX - NRT = 5,451 mi
LAX - ANC (2,345 mi) + ANC- NRT (3,433 mi) = 5,779 mi (additional 328 miles over nonstop)

But you still have to allow for at least an hour for the technical stop. Perception might still be everything in a business where people are paying a premium place.

But even with the Anchorage stop 5779 miles * 4 trips per day =23116 miles of flying distance, assume average speed of 1200 mph =19.26 hours
It is remotely possible that Boom may hit the supersonic holy grail of two round trip LAX - Tokyo flights per day. The time on ground may be sped up because there are so few seats.

Quote: Pacomartin

But you still have to allow for at least an hour for the technical stop. Perception might still be everything in a business where people are paying a premium place.

The thing here is "how much faster"? If you do 7 hours instead of 12, for example, that's a pretty big time savings (if flights are timed well).

Anyway, my point about a 200 passenger supersonic plane, is that Boom's CEO seems to think that's like the biggest supersonic planes will get. That's nice, and twice as large as Concorde, but smaller than all wide bodies plying long haul routes today. This brings up, again, traffic and frequency issues (and kills, again, the A380).

Quote: Nareed

Anyway, my point about a 200 passenger supersonic plane, is that Boom's CEO seems to think that's like the biggest supersonic planes will get.

Korean Air has 12 first class and 94 business class in their A380 configuration. I think they are the only airline to have over 100 premium seats on a single flight.
So in comparison, 200 premium seats is a lot.

Quote: Pacomartin

Korean Air has 12 first class and 94 business class in their A380 configuration. I think they are the only airline to have over 100 premium seats on a single flight.
So in comparison, 200 premium seats is a lot.

Oh, sorry. It's the typing posts at work with people interrupting me all the time.

By the time supersonic plane reach 200 pax, the price of fares should drop to more pocketbook-friendly levels. I think absent a major drop in oil prices, or new energy sources, flying supersonic will be more costly than subsonic. So maybe if a 31" pitch middle seat with buy-on-board meals can cost as much as double a similar seat with complimentary meals on a subsonic, some type of mass market may emerge.

Quote: Nareed

By the time supersonic plane reach 200 pax, the price of fares should drop to more pocketbook-friendly levels.

Ever the eternal optimist. Even talking about business class supersonic fares seems optimistic. My friend did win a free trip to London on the Concorde as part of a sales promotion.

Quote: Pacomartin

Ever the eternal optimist. Even talking about business class supersonic fares seems optimistic. My friend did win a free trip to London on the Concorde as part of a sales promotion.

Oh, my forecast is that Boom will place at best maybe 20 planes on the market, and these will be stuck in a NYC/London/Paris loop. Maybe an LA-Tokyo run for a short while just to prove they can do it. At worst it will place no planes at all.

Most likely it will remain a paper airplane, the company will fold, and ten years from now we'll be reading about yet another startup trying to trying to bring a revolutionary new supersonic passenger plane to market.

The question is whether my "best" scenario would be a success.

Oh, there's also a small chance at one or two models sold as private jets

This is getting bizarre.

A couple of people in the department need to travel tomorrow, and the oddities of scheduling landed them on Volaris for the outbound flight. I got their boarding passes, which involved paying 150 pesos each for seat selection on an exit row (extra legroom), about $7 US each. The boarding pass has a lot of info on it, rather well-presented, including times for documenting luggage and boarding.

What's odd is it also states what kind of luggage is allowed. This includes one checked bag, and one personal item, but it excludes a carry-on bag. There's a depiction of a bag, with measurements, and a zero in the allowance.

Odd.