Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

However, He chose to make us knowing that we would betray Him and yet love us anyway, He chose to forgive us over and over again never giving up on us, He chose to show us that He would always be there for us and love us no matter what.

In "The Truman Show," BTW one of my favorite movies, you see signs here and there reading "How will it end?" This in reference to the central premise (spoiler) that everyone but Truman knows Truman is in a TV show.

I mention this, because it leads to more contradictions in an all-powerful entity. See, if Jehovah knows everything, then he knew when he created humanity that he would regret doing so and he'd try to destroy his creation. He also knew eventually he'd have to split in three and found a new faith. And so on for every alleged event in the books of Hebrew myths. However, he also knows how it will end. The book says it will end, doesn't it? There are even aspects of "The End" in it, or so I'm given to understand.

So regardless of how it ends, Jehovah knew this always. He knew he'd try to destroy the world, he'd kill and torture many in Egypt, he knew he'd have Satan torture Job, he knew fifty million people would die, some by horrible means, in WWII, he knew of the reigns of Terror in the French Revolution, he knew Christians of different branches would kill each other in great numbers, he knew all this and much more.

So it had better be one hell of a good ending to justify all the misery he's inflicted and that he has allowed to happen.

Quote: Nareed

So are things like astrology, psychic readings, dianetics and a whole bunch of other things people swear by. Yours is one among many.

Yes indeed. Christianity is right up there
with every other superstitious nonsensical
belief system. Ouija boards and numerology
and Wicca are all every bit as valid as
worshiping a guy who has been dead for
2000 years and thinking he guides your
life.

Speaking of miracles, it is told that when Alexander died, his body averted decay for several days while the Macedonian generals argued over the fate of his empire. This was seen as a miracle at the time, though later on Alexander's body was embalmed in some fashion. It was mummified, still alter, after Ptolemy stole the body and brought it to Alexandria in Egypt.

Now, what do you think it's more likely: a) it was a miracle or b) Alexander was in a deep comma for his last few days.

The latter means he'd have been barely alive, yet with vital processes going on decay wouldn't ensue.

I think it's evident what most people today would think. It's also evident the people at the time wouldn't know about catatonic states and comma. Ergo, to them, it was a miracle.

Quote: rxwine

Which is contrary to the lesson of god drowning the Earth in the story of Noah.

Looks pretty much to me, the idea there was he did not forgive over and over again as you said in the same post.

Even if the story is an illustration and not literal, the lesson is god gave up and drowned them.

Are you confusing forgiveness with something else? We can experience both the sad reality of the consequences of our actions and forgiveness at the same time. Forgiveness is not some type of magical wand that takes all the pain of our action away or restores everything back to the way it was before we sinned. It is not a time machine is the freedom we need to push forward into a new reality caused by our sin but still full of hope thanks to God's love and forgiveness.

Quote: Nareed

It's never possible to compare real, actual things to stuff that only exists in fantasy.

It is very possible and common to make the mistake of only allowing ourselves to think of things in the ways we have experienced them and not allow ourselves to realize that can be something different and greater than what we have experienced. Thinking that Niagara Falls is only a fantasy will make it so that you never will compare the little waterfall you know of to it.

Quote:

Knows everything about you, watches everything you do, is with you even when you want him elsewhere, and he'll never go away. 100% certified stalker.

Things like this make me particularly grateful he's not real.

I don't know where to begin with this strawman. Let's first be clear what makes a stalker. A stalker is someone who obtains or seeks information about you they have no right to. Your mom who checks in on your room or watches you in the backyard to make sure you don't do something foolish is NOT a stalker. If you like a baby cry out, "stop stalking me mom!" She might respond, "While you live in my house I'll watch over you as I see fit, cause I'm your mom and I love you." So someone who knows what you are about and what you do even when you might not want them to is not a 100% certified stalker. The other maybe more serious problem with your argument is that you again place God in time like He is watching your every move and judging you, etc. You need to remember that God is eternal and outside of time. There is no following you around, He sees your past, present, and future - all your choices, etc. all at once.

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Who requires complete and total submission and obedience. He also dishes out severe punishment for transgressions.

Do we need to list how this compares to an abusive spouse or parent?

Is punishment abusive? Are consequences for our actions a bad thing? Is being respectful and obedient to our parents evil? You are reaching for more straws to build more strawmen, just don't.

Quote: Nareed

So it had better be one hell of a good ending to justify all the misery he's inflicted and that he has allowed to happen.

I agree. The only correction I would make is that God has not inflicted any misery upon us, but He does allow it to happen.

Quote: FrGamble

I agree. The only correction I would make is that God has not inflicted any misery upon us, but He does allow it to happen.

The flood?

Pain during childbirth?

The plagues of Egypt?

Quote: FrGamble

He sees your past, present, and future - all your choices, etc. all at once.

This is just so not true on so many
levels. It's nonsensical, ridiculous,
there is less than zero evidence of
it, if that's even possible. Religious
types like to throw it out there like
it actually means something.

Quote: FrGamble

Thinking that Niagara Falls is only a fantasy will make it so that you never will compare the little waterfall you know of to it.

Even before I visited, I'd seen pictures of the Falls.

Have you a photograph of Jehovah you'd care to share?

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I don't know where to begin with this strawman.

You could say "I will huff, and I will puff..." :) (I hate that story, but love the 50s cartoons that satirized it).

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A stalker is someone who obtains or seeks information about you they have no right to.

Exactly. What right does Jehovah have to any information I choose to keep private? I never opted-in to his data mining scheme.

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Your mom who checks in on your room or watches you in the backyard to make sure you don't do something foolish is NOT a stalker.

Your mom also knows to give you some privacy.

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There is no following you around, He sees your past, present, and future - all your choices, etc. all at once.

So 1) Jehovah is a peeping tom and not a stalker, or 2) Jehovah can't help invading your privacy every moment of every day for your whole life.

"Big Brother is Watching You."

Quote:

Is punishment abusive? Are consequences for our actions a bad thing? Is being respectful and obedient to our parents evil? You are reaching for more straws to build more strawmen, just don't.

Killing innocent people for the actions of other people is not just abusive, it's psychotic.

Quote: Dalex64

The flood?

Sin

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Pain during childbirth?

Original Sin

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The plagues of Egypt?

Derivative Sin.

Nah, just kidding: Sin.


"God" is like a machine, it seems, with a program dominated with "IF sin_level > arbitraty_limit THEN RUN destroy_world."