Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

All of these things do have evidence for them (some have very little though) and some people think it is enough evidence to choose to believe in UFOs or in ghosts..

Speaking of...

this is a CIA link

https://www.cia.gov/news-information/blog/2016/take-a-peek-into-our-x-files.html

Looks like they have more on UFOs than god.

Quote: Nareed

Not unless you re-write something as fundamental as the law of identity and the law of conservation of energy.

There is absolutely no contradiction with the law of identity and your earlier attempts to try to say there is amounts to the old question, "can God make a rock too heavy from Him to lift." You also have to realize that metaphysics and logic trumps the physical law of conservation of energy that obviously did not predate God or the creation of all things.

Quote:

I honestly cannot think of a reply that isn't hurtful, mocking, disparaging or all of the above.

I'm grateful you and Face have recently refrained from allowing your emotions to control you.

I am of the understanding that believing and worshiping other gods is against the first commandment and is a mortal sin, just like atheism, agnosticism, and belief in the "new age" stuff.

As usual, some documentation to support my opinion

http://trcthoughts.com/2012/04/mortal-sin-against-the-first-commandment-part-1/

To make sure we understand and are talking about the same things,

Quote:

A mortal sin, as defined by the Concise Catholic Dictionary of 1943 is “a morally bad human act which is grievously offensive to God; that sin
which destroys charity, robs the soul of sanctifying grace, and makes it
deserving of eternal punishment.”

Quote: FrGamble

God loved Job so much that He was with him throughout his travails, spoke to Him, and restored his fortunes at the end.

"God" "loved" Job so much he had him tortured, he killed his family, and then treated him like dirt when he begged for an explanation.

Eternal punishment... disagree with or reject god and you get... misery?

Before you say "self inflicted" let me point out that you don't have the ability to inflict this sort of punishment on yourself or anyone else. It has to have a supernatural cause.

Quote: FrGamble

Surely there are other ways to know someone is real without seeing them.

Blind faith is not proof.

Quote:

Um...I think you know what I mean. Rainbows are not like the Lucky Charms box where the actually touch the ground and pots of gold are present. This is evidence against their existence.

So when you read in the Bible Jehovah imply the world is flat, does that prove he doesn't exist?

Quote:

Hey at least if you believe in thousands of gods you are not an atheist.

I believe in exactly no gods at all. but I want to see your definitive proof that the gods I mentioned are not real. After all, you wouldn't irrationally disbelieve in Vash The Great Teacher, who taught humanity to make tools and tame fire, would you? You must have irrefutable proof.

Quote:

So why don't I concede that and let you give us proof that YHWH does not exist?

Do you concede Minerva, Ares, Hermes, Heracles, Baal, Seth, Hathor, Huixlipoxtli, and thousands of other gods are real?

I don't think that would sit well with your superiors in Rome.

Quote: Nareed

"God" "loved" Job so much he had him tortured, he killed his family, and then treated him like dirt when he begged for an explanation.

This is a biased, incorrect, and poor interpretation of the story of Job.

Quote: Nareed

Blind faith is not proof.

That is true, but a blind person can be pretty sure someone or something exists can't he?

Quote:

So when you read in the Bible Jehovah imply the world is flat, does that prove he doesn't exist?

Does the world being flat or round have a necessary and direct connection to YHWH in the same way a leprechaun has with his pot of gold?

Quote:

I believe in exactly no gods at all. but I want to see your definitive proof that the gods I mentioned are not real. After all, you wouldn't irrationally disbelieve in Vash The Great Teacher, who taught humanity to make tools and tame fire, would you? You must have irrefutable proof.

Please remember that when we are talking about issues of faith you don't need irrefutable proof but what you do need is reasonable evidence that points us towards the probable assumption that it is more likely that God exists. If you really believed that you need irrefutable proof to believe in something you would run very far and fast away from even the notion of atheism plus many other things that make life livable.

That being said this question you brought up does kind of have irrefutable logic behind the answer that there cannot be many gods. Ironically you kind of alluded to the problem in some recent posts of yours that pointed out the impossibility of having two equally all-powerful gods. The law of identity makes it pretty clear that all-powerful means just that, that there is no one who can be more or equally powerful. Just a reminder you avoid the hypothetical problem of an all-powerful God creating a second all-powerful God by remembering the other characteristics of God that cannot be held in isolation.

Quote:

Do you concede Minerva, Ares, Hermes, Heracles, Baal, Seth, Hathor, Huixlipoxtli, and thousands of other gods are real?

Of course not, but they are closer to being correct than atheism so I can't wait to hear the irrefutable proof God does not exist.

Basically, if you don't believe that any other gods are real, but you can't prove it, why should you expect anyone else to "disprove god" for you?

Quote: Dalex64

Basically, if you don't believe that any other gods are real, but you can't prove it, why should you expect anyone else to "disprove god" for you?

Again I am assuming by "prove it" you really mean explain why you don't believe and show me the evidence that does not prove it but leads on to not believe there aren't a bunch of pagan gods. Again, and I hesitate to even present this evidence because every time someone says I am just playing the numbers game and how many people believe or don't believe something does not make it true or false - which I agree with! Nevertheless, the fact that belief in these many gods Nareed likes to name has fallen off the face of the Earth is evidence that could lead one to say they were and are not real gods. Secondly, the logical impossibility of having multiple all-powerful gods at once. Only one can truly be the all-powerful creator of everyone else or we run into the absurdities that Nareed pointed out in an earlier post. Thirdly, the answers these specific deities provide to the problems of the world and humanity are to say the least left wanting. Is my difficulties really because I didn't sacrifice some bull to Apollo or the right incantation to Ra? How do they teach me to live and what are their moral laws? These are pretty bad and ring of selfishness and power more than loving service. So for all these reasons and many more I could name I don't believe in any of these gods. Now, is there any evidence or reasons you don't believe in God in general or in God as revealed in the Bible and through the Catholic Church more specifically?