Simple question?

Quote: FrGamble

How do you figure?!? Logic and the physical laws of the universe all point to the existence of God as the only possibility.

Not unless you re-write something as fundamental as the law of identity and the law of conservation of energy.

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Very good admission. Therefore energy itself cannot be the ultimate source of the universe.

Yes it can. everything in the universe is made of energy, or is a result of actions by energy or by structures made of energy.

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I think if you continue the process of determining what cannot be God you will find the logical evidence of God yourself.

I honestly cannot think of a reply that isn't hurtful, mocking, disparaging or all of the above.

Quote: Nareed

I honestly cannot think of a reply that isn't hurtful, mocking, disparaging or all of the above.

He doesn't see it, Nareed. He's so desperate
for his god to be real he'll literally say anything
to make it true. I saw this when I was trying to
be a Christian 40 years ago. The members of
my little Christian cult were always amazed
and grateful when they managed to get a new
convert. They were amazed because deep down
they don't really believe what they're preaching
and need a constant influx of converts to bolster
their own belief. FrG thinks he's different, but deep
down he has doubts, all cult members do,

Quote: FrGamble

No, I am saying there is a difference between a parent spanking His child and the child falling off his bike and breaking his arm.

Yes. the first is child abuse and the other is an accident.

Quote: Face

but something about when it turns into God,... I'm simply repulsed to my core. I do not have words to describe the feeling,

I know exactly what you're talking about.
It goes against everything I've learned in
life and figured out. It's somebody elses
belief system that is of zero use to me,
and outside of this conversation is of
little interest. I've said before, the only
reason I'm in these threads is because
an actual priest is involved. They are
usually way too arrogant and self important
to spend this much time conversing with
non believers. FrG is unique, and I can't
pass up the opportunity.

Quote: Dalex64

I mean, seriously. You are saying that making someone miserable by punishing them isn't inflicting misery on them.

Job got to be made miserable to the extreme, and he wasn't even being punished. He lost his wealth, his family and his health.

When people tell me "God" loves me, I remind myself he also loved Job.

Quote: Nareed

When people tell me "God" loves me, I remind myself he also loved Job.

I've read Bible scholars who believe Job should
have never been included in the Bible. It just
takes too much explaining and puts Yahweh
is a really bad light.

Quote: Face

It's the God stuff... "creepy" doesn't even begin to hit the nail for me. I mean, it does. It's beyond creepy as all hell. But there's just something about it that makes me want to end it. Something that feels like a poison or a disease.

I can relate. I can see many things wrong with an all powerful deity, starting with the casual assumption we all are, for practical purposes, his property. But I'd be curious to know what specifically repulses you so much.

Quote: Nareed

I can relate. I can see many things wrong with an all powerful deity, starting with the casual assumption we all are, for practical purposes, his property. But I'd be curious to know what specifically repulses you so much.

So would I.

Quote: Nareed

When people tell me "God" loves me, I remind myself he also loved Job.

God loved Job so much that He was with him throughout his travails, spoke to Him, and restored his fortunes at the end.

Quote: Nareed

No one's seen a god, either.

Surely there are other ways to know someone is real without seeing them.

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Not only they have ends, often you can see where the projection ends. Even in the secondary rainbow, if you catch one.

Um...I think you know what I mean. Rainbows are not like the Lucky Charms box where the actually touch the ground and pots of gold are present. This is evidence against their existence.

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I'm still waiting on your proof that thousands of gods do not exist.

Why don't we make a deal? First you show me iron-clad proof that Athena, Ist, Marduk, Osiris, Knum, Thoth, Tlaloc, Vash and Demeter do not exist, and then I'll show you my proof that Jehovah does not exist.

Hey at least if you believe in thousands of gods you are not an atheist. That is a huge improvement. So why don't I concede that and let you give us proof that YHWH does not exist?