Challenge to FrGamble

Quote: rxwine

You mean how you pointed out how god handled the Holocaust? Yes, very convincing.

By far the most emotional and moving argument against the existence of God is the problem of evil. It is not a purely logical one but it is very compelling.

Quote: FrGamble

By far the most emotional and moving argument against the existence of God is the problem of evil. It is not a purely logical one but it is very compelling.

When does something become evil. The Church
forcibly converted Jews for hundreds of years,
and then sent Inquisition squads back to check
on some of them to make sure they had stayed
converted. Woe to them if they had not. How is
this any less evil than the Holocaust.

If there was an office of proving things don't exist, I'd assign that miserable job to you FrGamble. You could talk to all the nutcakes who'd want you to prove whatever they believed in doesn't exist.

In fact, there is such an office. I just thought of it. It's the psychiatrist.

Quote: Evenbob

When does something become evil. The Church
forcibly converted Jews for hundreds of years,
and then sent Inquisition squads back to check
on some of them to make sure they had stayed
converted. Woe to them if they had not. How is
this any less evil than the Holocaust.

This is an example of the atheist's false history and exaggerated history. The Church did not forcibly convert anyone. It was the state that ordered the Inquistions and their abuses brought the Church in to try to moderate and put some semblance of justice and fairness to this chaotic time in Spain. They did not at all do a perfect job, but they strived to control the mobs who and kangaroo courts of the government that seemed hellbent (literally) on killing people who were deemed dangerous to the State without a shred of evidence or trial.

Quote: FrGamble

The Church did not forcibly convert anyone. It was the state that ordered the Inquistions.

There was no separation of Church and state,
the state did whatever the Church told it to
do.

Inquisition: "an ecclesiastical tribunal established by Pope Gregory IX circa 1232 for the suppression of heresy. It was active chiefly in northern Italy and southern France, becoming notorious for the use of torture. In 1542 the papal Inquisition was re-established to combat Protestantism, eventually becoming an organ of papal government."

"Millions of Jews from the fourth century CE until the 20th Century were forced to “kiss the sword” of Christ, or be put to death by that sword. Therefore, many, many Jews died at the hands of Christians in the name of Jesus. Fortunately, many Jews managed to survive. They survived by lying―they converted, but secretly remained Jews. The Christian Church finally realized what was happening and in 1492, the Spanish Inquisition tried to purge the country of these “Secret” Jews."

I'd love to see your source for these crazy quotes.

Quote: FrGamble

Why would you be willing to do this for satan and not for God?

Because it would be cheaper than buying a searchlight to summon Batman with?

Quote:

The problem is that I'm afraid you would discover that satan is real too and that would not be good at all for you or anyone else. I mean this like I have never meant anything else I have said on this forum - please don't even attempt such a thing. I will gladly leave the forum forever rather than have you even attempt such a tragic and dangerous thing.

I believe you are sincere. As sincere as people who would warn me not to stand in front of a mirror saying "Bloody Mary."

As usual, there is a lot of information, with references, at Wikipedia.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inquisition

Speaking to two specific points, in one arrangement, the church-run inquisitors identified heretics and turned them over to the state, knowing what the state would do to them. That is willing complicity.

As for the forced conversions, at one particular point in time, forced conversions and baptisms were not allowed by the church. HOWEVER they interpreted this to mean that the conversion and baptism ITSELF could not be made under force, it was acceptable for the person to agree to convert under torture and other coercion. In that situation, they were not allowed to revert to Judaism, because one way or another they "agreed" to convert.

Interesting that it is a one-way process, too. Once you willingly convert, it was never acceptable to convert to another religion.

Also, the Inquisition was not just the Spanish Inquisition.

The main thing though, is you just need to read, and understand that even though there may have been a time that the church was opposed to certain actions, there was another time when they either performed similar actions themselves, or were complicit in those acts.

Another thing is you do not get to absolve an organization of responsibility because it is against current policy, or how the scripture was interpreted differently or ignored completely at certain times, or 'bad people' were in charge. In the case of the church, it is still the same organization that traces it's roots all the way back to Peter, as you are so proud of pointing out.

Quote: FrGamble

Why would you be willing to do this for satan and not for God?

The problem is that I'm afraid you would discover that satan is real too and that would not be good at all for you or anyone else. I mean this like I have never meant anything else I have said on this forum - please don't even attempt such a thing. I will gladly leave the forum forever rather than have you even attempt such a tragic and dangerous thing.

I am amazed that you believe in this superstitious stuff.

There are a lot of 'satanists' out there worshipping the devil, or mock-worshipping the devil, or performing numerous summoning rituals as shown on YouTube.

Are there any documented cases where it worked?

If there are, what is the success rate against the total number of attempts at that sort of ritual?

Quote: FrGamble

Do you think this is how it works. Would you be able to go to a court of law to charge me when you have no evidence?

Would you be able to prove your gods' existence in a court of law?

Quote:

Here is another example:

rxwine doesn't understand basic concepts.

1) actually he does. He just disagrees with you.

2) How dare you say such things of God! :)