Easter: Message of Jesus?

My education was public school till seminary and then I was Jesuit trained from there so questions were often all I had and they were constantly encouraged. I imagine if you went to a Catholic Church instead of some fundamentalist Church we would be having a much better and more fruitful discussion.

Quote: FrGamble

My education was public school till seminary and then I was Jesuit trained from there so questions were often all I had and they were constantly encouraged. .

If that's true, why don't you had adequate
answers for some of the pertinent questions.
Like, what sins did Jesus die on the cross
for? That's a big one you still haven't addressed,
all you do is beat around the bush and obfuscate.

ob·fus·cate
ˈäbfəˌskāt/Submit
verb
render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.

Jesus died for all our sins.

Is that clear enough for you? Do you have any answer to the questions I posed to you?

Quote: Evenbob

If that's true, why don't you had adequate
answers for some of the pertinent questions.
Like, what sins did Jesus die on the cross
for? That's a big one you still haven't addressed,
all you do is beat around the bush and obfuscate.

ob·fus·cate
ˈäbfəˌskāt/Submit
verb
render obscure, unclear, or unintelligible.

Jesus died for all of us, the ultimate altruistic sacrifice. Whether we believe in him or not, or thought it necessary, that's what HE believed, was instructed by God to do, and that's what he did. He asked to be spared the pain of it, but God told him that's why he had come to earth, and so Jesus allowed them to murder him. Christians honor that sacrifice either symbolically or literally with the Transfiguration of bread and wine. (Transfiguration was a roadblock for me in considering Catholicism, fwiw. I think it's purely symbolic, and don't accept the miracle it represents).

Human sacrifice for godly purposes had been practiced in many religions, including Christianity, for thousands of years at that point. Abraham offered God Isaac, for example, and he's considered a common ancestor to Judaism, Islam, and Christianity. Some still practice it today, like self-immolating monks. So, in that time and place, that society, it's not hard to imagine that chain of events.

Quote: FrGamble

Jesus died for all our sins.


Is that clear enough for you?

That's not the right question. The right question is: why is this relevant to me?

Quote: beachbumbabs

Christians honor that sacrifice either symbolically or literally with the Transfiguration of bread and wine. (Transfiguration was a roadblock for me in considering Catholicism, fwiw. I think it's purely symbolic, and don't accept the miracle it represents).

I should have been more explicit in directing my question to you last time regarding why you believe in the resurrection.

Here is a case where a particular religion has declared that something they do every day is a specific kind of miracle, which you have decided not to believe.

So, how do you decide which parts of the bible, or which directives from some organized religion, are to be believed, or which are just parables, metaphors, or some other literary agent and not the literal truth?

Are the only choices "literal truth" and "not to be taken literally"? Aren't there other choices, such as "complete fabrication"?

Did you chose your religion based on what you were willing to believe?

Quote: Nareed

That's not the right question. The right question is: why is this relevant to me?

It is relevant because I think we all feel a disconnect between the person we are and the person we want to be. This disconnect can be turned to a type of despair or not feeling good about ourselves. This ironically is the number one thing holding us back from being more like the person we want to be. Therefore Jesus came to let you know that your sins are forgiven, that you are loved unconditionally and that we should not listen to the lies that tell us we are bad, unworthy, or hopeless. It is the freedom we need from guilt and shame that allows us the space to flourish.

Quote: FrGamble

Therefore Jesus came to let you know that your sins are forgiven, that you are loved unconditionally and that we should not listen to the lies that tell us we are bad, unworthy, or hopeless.

Funny how it's Christian doctrine that keeps harping on other people being bad, unworthy, hopeless, sinful, etc.

Quote:

It is the freedom we need from guilt and shame that allows us the space to flourish.

I don't feel guilt or shame, except when I do things that induce such feelings. It's not a constant state of being.

So, what's the relevance?

Quote: Dalex64

So, how do you decide which parts of the bible, or which directives from some organized religion, are to be believed, or which are just parables, metaphors, or some other literary agent and not the literal truth?

Are the only choices "literal truth" and "not to be taken literally"? Aren't there other choices, such as "complete fabrication"?

Did you chose your religion based on what you were willing to believe?

I am interested to here Babs answer but I was wondering if you caught my answer or if it got lost in the Evenbob fluff. Here it is again:

Quote: FrG

A good question. It is a combination of a lot of things. Obviously historical research is important. You also need to look at the genre and purpose of the writing, a study of the grammar of the original languages can reveal a lot. Just as important is the Tradition of believers, the Early Church Fathers and the practice of the early Church. This can tell us a lot about what was literally true or hyperbole or parables or comments meant to connect the NT events to OT prophecies in a literally or figurative sense.

In regards to your further questions here, yes there are other choices and one of them is definitely "complete fabrication".

Also I chose my religion based on what spoke into the human condition and made the most sense of life and the universe. I also chose my religion based on historical evidence, interior logic, scientific evidence, philosophy, coherent theology, the witness of great men and women, miracles, and personal experience.

Quote: Nareed

Funny how it's Christian doctrine that keeps harping on other people being bad, unworthy, hopeless, sinful, etc.

Plenty of evidence of this around. Also keep in mind that it is Christian doctrine that keeps harping on despite people behaving bad or sinful that this is NOT who we are. We are good, worthy, hopeful, and loved - this is what Christian doctrine is harping on!

Quote:

I don't feel guilt or shame, except when I do things that induce such feelings. It's not a constant state of being.

So, what's the relevance?

I'm glad that it is not a constant state of being. However, the lasting impact of those things that caused you guilt or shame is separation from a perfect God. Jesus reconnects us to God through His perfection and His sacrifice for us. Therefore the relevance is not just a current moment state of being, but rather an eternal gift of righteousness with God.