Does Religion Make People Moral?

Quote: FrGamble

I think the objective moral code for human beings forbids slavery and the mistreatment of anyone.

Yes, it does.

The code based on your god, however, does not.

Quote: Nareed

Yes, it does.

The code based on your god, however, does not.

I'm glad we agree on the first part. The God I believe in and that gives the moral code teaches to love your neighbor as yourself.

Quote: FrGamble

I'm glad we agree on the first part. The God I believe in and that gives the moral code teaches to love your neighbor as yourself.

Not the same god, apparently, as the one of the Old Testament. Chapter 21 of Exodus is all about the rules governing slavery.

Quote: Wizard

Not the same god, apparently, as the one of the Old Testament. Chapter 21 of Exodus is all about the rules governing slavery.

FrG.

If you have spoken of this before, I missed it. I also have trouble reconciling the OT God with the NT God.

Do you think that God Him/Herself changed with the coming of Christ? Did He, perhaps, learn mercy, grace, or tolerance? Did He, perhaps, just step back and let the Son take over the family business? How do you, as a priest in lifelong study of the subject, explain or understand the change in immediacy, the ceasing of direct retribution for sins, as he had in the past with the Flood, Sodom & Gomorrah, Job, Jonah, Elijah, Pharaoh, and many others?

Genuinely want to know. Not trolling you.

Quote: Wizard

Not the same god, apparently, as the one of the Old Testament. Chapter 21 of Exodus is all about the rules governing slavery.

The Bible loves slaves, Jesus never spoke
against slavery. Paul even told a slave to
return to his master.

"Nowhere in the New Testament will you find a condemnation of slavery, nor an updating of the Mosaic slave code. Instead you have stuff like Ephesians 6 where slaves are told to be “obedient to them that are your masters according to the flesh, with fear and trembling”; and Philemon, where Paul sends back a runaway slave to his Christian owner. Jesus does not raise a word against the practice."

Christians will say it was a 'different' slavery
then. Ha, don't believe it. Half the people
crucified (or more) were runaway slaves
that were caught , and as an example
were hung on croses for other slaves
to see.

Quote: Wizard

Not the same god, apparently, as the one of the Old Testament. Chapter 21 of Exodus is all about the rules governing slavery.

And how to sell a daughter into slavery. that should come in handy for people with daughters and money problems.

Quote: Nareed

And how to sell a daughter into slavery. that should come in handy for people with daughters and money problems.

At least the buyer can't resell her to a foreigner.

Quote: Exodus 21: 7-8

And if a man sell his daughter to be a maidservant, she shall not go out as the menservants do. If she please not her master, who hath betrothed her to himself, then shall he let her be redeemed: to sell her unto a strange nation he shall have no power, seeing he hath dealt deceitfully with her.

Quote: Wizard

At least the buyer can't resell her to a foreigner.

Good point. Protectionism only makes slavery worse.

Come on, people. Off topic. That has all been discussed ad nauseam. This is about all religions, not just Christianity, and it is about religion creating morality.

The obvious answer, based purely on observation, is resoundingly no. Religion does not make people moral. It never has.

That does not mean religious people are amoral. It does not mean that non-religious people are moral. It means that morality is a quality that exists beyond religion.

There rises a new question, though, and that is the relativism of morality, brought up by Fr Gamble. And this question, too, transcends religion. If morality is defined as what is best for society, then when society changes, morality changes. Like the treatment of slaves... even within Christianity, morality is relative to society!

Quote: Mosca

Come on, people. Off topic. That has all been discussed ad nauseam. This is about all religions, not just Christianity, and it is about religion creating morality.

The obvious answer, based purely on observation, is resoundingly no. Religion does not make people moral. It never has.

That does not mean religious people are amoral. It does not mean that non-religious people are moral. It means that morality is a quality that exists beyond religion.

There rises a new question, though, and that is the relativism of morality, brought up by Fr Gamble. And this question, too, transcends religion. If morality is defined as what is best for society, then when society changes, morality changes. Like the treatment of slaves... even within Christianity, morality is relative to society!

Seems obvious, and results in a cognitive dissonance with those with beliefs are based on certain axioms, such as god provides morality or religion provides morality, or certain carefully selected moral principles are 'absolute', which are demonstrated over and over to be inconsistent with our history, reality, and personal experiences.