Women Unhated

Quote: Wizard

Yes. There was such a scene in Saturday Night Fever. The woman was crying in the back seat of a car, but the man kept going at it. That was wrong and I would call it rape.

Rape is rape, don't get me wrong.

Don't recall the SNF scene exactly, I thought it was out and out rape? However, if two people are engaging in willful intercourse, and the woman decides it's time to stop, what is the name of the crime, that the man is guilty of?

Me personally, I've had it happen, and stopped.

Quote:

And? What is your point?

Wondering where the boundary is where yes can turn into no? Can it be the next day or week?

I don't agree that a woman coming to my home is permission, far from it. I don't take buying dinner, drinks, or entertainment means anything other than that. I need my partner fully willing .

I wouldn't have let my kid be in that situation.

As I have said, legalize brothels and this situation goes away.

Quote: petroglyph

When is "the last minute"?
Is there a point, where the man can continue if the woman says "no more"?.

I believe there is a man living in a linen closet in the Ecudorian embassy in London who would be a good person for you to address that question.

Quote: Wizard

Yes. There was such a scene in Saturday Night Fever. The woman was crying in the back seat of a car, but the man kept going at it. That was wrong and I would call it rape.

The basic idea is one has dominion over one's body, and it's not ceded to the other person.

The courts have decided people have more right to stop something happening to them, than any discomfort the other person may have not being able to continue and that makes sense to me.

The idea that once a woman enters your bedroom or even bed, she is fair game. Well, that's not how it gonna work in the courts.

I don't believe you can rape a prostitute even if you already paid her. If it was a legal brothel I assume the court could force them to give your money back and maybe assess further penalties to compensate. But like other legal transactions gone bad, you can't legaly engage in assaultive behavior.

"No" always means no and must be respected. If a prostitute said "no" in the middle of the act, then the client must respect it. I am skeptical this situation has even actually happened, but if it did, yes, he would have a legitimate request to get his money back. I can't think of any exception -- "no" must always be respected.

If you ask me, sober consent must always be given. I won't go so far as to say that a contract must be signed, but intelligent people know when sober consent has been agreed upon.

Quote: Wizard

"No" always means no and must be respected. If a prostitute said "no" in the middle of the act, then the client must respect it. I am skeptical this situation has even actually happened, but if it did, yes, he would have a legitimate request to get his money back. I can't think of any exception -- "no" must always be respected.

If you ask me, sober consent must always be given. I won't go so far as to say that a contract must be signed, but intelligent people know when sober consent has been agreed upon.

What difference would a signed contract make. You point is that a women (or man) can say no at any point in the act. I think your logic is upon pretty shaky ground if a written contract makes a difference. All a written contract does is confirm that there was agreement between the parties at some point, likely prior to the act. If that is your stance then that also means the courts are able in some circumstances to give full credence to implied contracts and you have lost the black and white position you are taking.

Quote: Wizard

"No" always means no and must be respected. If a prostitute said "no" in the middle of the act, then the client must respect it. I am skeptical this situation has even actually happened, but if it did, yes, he would have a legitimate request to get his money back.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_prostitutes
Prostitutes are raped all the time. It is rape even if she is paid. I suspect that most rapes are when the man demands a different kind of sex than she consented too.

Not sure, but I think a contract wouldn't void certain expectations of rights.

For instance let's say I could sign a contract to donate a kidney. I think, even a minute before the surgery I could change my mind. Probably thousands of dollars of preparation wasted.

The contract though would provide opportunities to punish me other ways, and ensure the other party doesn't have put up with my whims without some return.
But I don't think they could ever force me to have an operation like that.

I assume a sex contract would work the same way. You still couldn't force by contract, but you could take assets for damages.


edit, I'm not saying kidney donation works that way, just needed an example.

Quote: kenarman

What difference would a signed contract make. You point is that a women (or man) can say no at any point in the act. I think your logic is upon pretty shaky ground if a written contract makes a difference. All a written contract does is confirm that there was agreement between the parties at some point, likely prior to the act. If that is your stance then that also means the courts are able in some circumstances to give full credence to implied contracts and you have lost the black and white position you are taking.

I already said a contact is not necessary. I don't deny that two intelligent people might disagree over if consent was reached. What I will say is that if a woman enters a man's room, drunken fraternity party of not, she does NOT cede her right to say "no." She never cedes that right.

A while back, I had a endoscopic procedure. It's pretty much the reverse end of a colonoscopy. They look down your throat and into your stomach and little beyond. Anyway, moments before it was to get underway, I had brief fear of choking to death, not being able to breathe. I was tempted to say, wait, let's just forget it, get up, get dressed and leave. But that passed just as quickly.

Indeed, I woke up in the middle of it, coughing and gagging (silently) but rather vigorously. Weirdly though, it was completely comfortable coughing and gagging and I had no sensation of discomfort of any kind.

Good drugs. I remember the doctor looking at me as I half sat up, saying, just relax, and I shortly passed back into unconsciousness.

I hope next time you get to swallow that tiny camera that sends Bluetooth images.