Democratic debates

Quote: SOOPOO

Gotta disagree with you here. Having looked at sperm under a microscope, they are definitely alive, by any reasonable standard. They move. They have a goal. They are genetically programmed to survive, by teaming with an egg. That being said, I don't care at all that they are wasted in the trillions every day. Just like I don't care that bacteria die every day. I don't consider a living sperm a human life, and am grateful that our society feels that way and offers no 'protection' to sperm with the exception of the Catholic Church.

Science ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT 'prove life begins at conception'. I think what you mean is 'a new life' begins at conception. So perhaps our disagreement is semantic.

You are splitting hairs with words. I clearly said sperm are not "life." A sperm stays a sperm unless it unifies with an egg. The Catholic Church does not want "protection" for sperm. Similarly "life" and "a new life" are us each wording things different. Any human being traces itself to the moment of fertilization. Before this the egg and sperm are not interchangeable with any other egg and sperm. It is each in it's unique self that makes that individual person. If it is sperm B instead of sperm A than unifies, the person will be different.

Quote:

Also, your use of the phrase "abortion lovers" is intentionally misleading and argumentative. I am for a woman's right to have an abortion, but I resent the term, if applied to me, of abortion lover. With a few EXTREME exceptions, pro choice people would all prefer that the choice not need be made.

I am not being misleading at all. I have shown on both sites women who proudly wear "SHOUT YOUR ABORTION? tee shirts. Women who dance among a display for aborted unborn babies saying "that one was mine!" These are not pro-choice people, the are people who love abortion.

I will agree with your "they would prefer the choice not be made" when I see them support delivering the baby and putting it up for adoption. Or praising the mother who kept a child. Ever see how they treated Sarah Palin for keeping her special needs child? They acted like animals. Sent pictures of a bloody coat hanger and a caption, "better luck next time!" Other similar things. This is "pro abortion" not "pro choice."

The people you describe, preferring the choice not be made, do not go to the streets and act like what you see at pro-choice rallies.

Quote: AZDuffman

The Catholic Church does not want "protection" for sperm. .

Does anybody care what the Catholic
Church says about anything? 90%
of Catholics rarely go to mass, if
at all. 90% use the pill for contraception.
Just a bunch of sexually repressed
Gay men trying to dictate to women
how to run their sex lives. A recent
4 year study has shown that 80-90%
of Vatican priests are Gay. Oh boy..

Quote: Evenbob

Does anybody care what the Catholic
Church says about anything? 90%
of Catholics rarely go to mass, if
at all. 90% use the pill for contraception.
Just a bunch of sexually repressed
Gay men trying to dictate to women
how to run their sex lives. A recent
4 year study has shown that 80-90%
of Vatican priests are Gay. Oh boy..

Anywhere Catholics are in significant numbers, they are going to have some impact.
Better to pay attention at least, than ignore.

Quote: rxwine

Anywhere Catholics are in significant numbers, they are going to have some impact.
Better to pay attention at least, than ignore.

I appreciate your response but it would probably be good as well to point out EB's blatant anti-Catholicism and bigoted lies as well.

I also want to thank AZ for his comments concerning abortion. As much as I'd like to agree with SOOPOO about "pro-choice" folks I think that he and his opinions have a while ago been abandoned by the pro-choice crowd. I think knowing that they have lost the argument that a fetus is a living growing human being they are now just saying that a woman has a right to kill her child. This is why you are seeing people defend late term abortions after viability and even denying healthcare to children born alive during abortions, which I dare say he and most rational people would be against.

Quote: FrGamble

As much as I'd like to agree with SOOPOO about "pro-choice" folks I think that he and his opinions have a while ago been abandoned by the pro-choice crowd. I think knowing that they have lost the argument that a fetus is a living growing human being they are now just saying that a woman has a right to kill her child. This is why you are seeing people defend late term abortions after viability and even denying healthcare to children born alive during abortions, which I dare say he and most rational people would be against.

Humans are the only species who fashion concepts out of thin air and impose it on the natural world such as the idea that all fertilized eggs must grow to be human beings no matter what.

Quote: rxwine

Humans are the only species who fashion concepts out of thin air and impose it on the natural world such as the idea that all fertilized eggs must grow to be human beings no matter what.

Also the only species that tell women it is OK to abort their offspring because they are "inconvenient." What's your point?

My point remains that a society with a high abortion rate is a society in collapse.

Quote: rxwine

Humans are the only species who fashion concepts out of thin air and impose it on the natural world such as the idea that all fertilized eggs must grow to be human beings no matter what.

I am not sure what that point means. Humans are the only species that have a full understanding of reproductive science... Most species don't have any understanding of the science. The vast majoirty only have base instincts...

"With a few EXTREME exceptions, pro choice people would all prefer that the choice not need be made." That statement is a BLATANT LIE.

Oh look, a bunch of dudes on the internet debating what women can do with their bodies. How exciting and groundbreaking.

Quote: ams288

Oh look, a bunch of dudes on the internet debating what women can do with their bodies. How exciting and groundbreaking.

That is making a massive assumption about everyone's gender identity.