The Coronavirus thread

Quote: AZDuffman

I am just getting tired of being told that I am somehow endangering society by choosing not to get it.

The truth hurts, huh?

Boo-hoo.

Quote: SOOPOO

Frankly, I’d suspend you for this post if I was a moderator. I have answered this question for you maybe a half dozen times in various posts both here one on WoV, in ways simple enough for a 6 year old to understand. The vax works, but is not 100% effective. By taking it you are FAR SAFER than not taking it, but not 100% safe. THAT’S why on earth you should take it. Do you not wear a seatbelt because it is not 100% successful at preventing death?

Remember, AZ, I support your right to not get the vaccine. I agree that businesses should all be free now. I resent (but always comply politely) having to wear a mask now that everyone has had an opportunity to get vaccinated. But for any individual, the EV of not getting a vaccine is negative. NOT EVEN CLOSE.

He's concerned about who might be telling him what to do. He's certainly mentioned it enough on different topics.

You worry about if it's correct information or not.

Guess who is going to be right more often? But you know that already.

Quote: AZDuffman

And it is a free choice. I am just getting tired of being told that I am somehow endangering society by choosing not to get it. And being told by people who mostly all do their own bad behavior that can spread disease or cause other danger. Especially with the logic that says I have to take it because it is so ineffective.

Frankly, this whole virus has been an exercise in people showing being obedient and complying without question to be some kind of virtue. And that we should lionize people who call the police on people not bothering anyone just because they are not wearing masks. We have seen very dangerous social signs up and down since the beginning.

The same people who get upset to no end about even calling it the china virus lest somehow a minority be offended treat people not wanting it the same as the biggest bigot treats someone they do not like.

I will not remain silent.

You are endangering society by not receiving it, it slows obtaining herd immunity. As far the logic that people who support the vaccine are negated by "bad behavior" (whatever that means), is not relevant, if somebody who is "bad" says something that is true, it is still true.

For (an extreme) example Adolf Hitler and Osama Bin Laden were both against alcohol and tobacco, and thought consuming such damaged your body and society. This is objectively true. If somebody said, I hate Bin Laden so I am not going to stop drinking, it would be idiotic.
Its the same concept as when somebody says I hate Dr Faucci and Joe Biden so I am not going to get the vaccine. Which is also an absurd argument (besides the obvious reasons), because the vaccines were developed primarily under Trump's leadership (as he will loudly say over and over again.....)

As far as calling the police on people for not wearing masks, its often the best thing to do. If you are in a store and causing a scene after refusing to put a mask on the police can and should be called.... This is not a small problem, in recent weeks assaults on flight attendants are skyrocketing for the same issue (people not wearing their mask on the plane and getting aggressive when told to leave). I have zero issue with people being arrested after refusing to leave private property (and in many cases the videos are quite amusing, because they actually film themselves thinking they are making some kind of stand by not wearing a mask in a grocery store).

It's just more gnashing of teeth / street theater from the Trumpies.

Their man lost, the election is rigged, Biden is evil, what can they do?

Don't wear a mask or get vaccinated: that'll show those liberals.

Quote: missedhervee

It's just more gnashing of teeth / street theater from the Trumpies.

Their man lost, the election is rigged, Biden is evil, what can they do?

Don't wear a mask or get vaccinated: that'll show those liberals.

100% correct. Something that should not be political has become political.

Now, I know there are some fringe people who have been anti-vax for decades, usually because of religion (tend to be right) or "naturalistic" (tend to be left) reasons, but this is something else entirely. It is a massive movement of people rejecting science and common sense health measures because their candidate lost (well in their minds he won, but that is another issue).

Quote: Mission146

Quote: rxwine

Quote: Mission146

" As a principle, people either believe that an adult individual (who is sane) should have the choice of what does or does not go into his/her body, or we do not believe that. If one believes that the concept only selectively applies, then it ceases to be a principle for that person. [/qb]

Okay then, are you for or against smoking in all common areas where people gather? The virus and smoke enter other people's bodies the same way.

If you can keep the virus from leaving your body, you can walk around anywhere as far as I'm concerned. Just like when you use pouches tobacco. But you can't.

I am for or against whatever the property owner decided to do vis-a-vis smoking. I am in favor of the rights of the property owner to decide policies for that property.

Therefore, I am categorically against smoking bans by Government mandate.

However, I can live with smoking bans that were voted upon by the public, but would still prefer property owners to decide for themselves.

Similarly, I am in favor of business owners being allowed to decide that unvaccinated people are not permitted on their property, if they wish.

Here's a twist on a version of the same idea.

What if you're a long time employee, but get told you must have the vaccine but you don't want it. You're not going to easily replace the pay or benefits you're getting if you quit instead.

Are you still with the rights of the employer?

Quote: rxwine

What if you're a long time employee, but get told you must have the vaccine but you don't want it. You're not going to easily replace the pay or benefits you're getting if you quit instead.

Are you still with the rights of the employer?

Of course, they are doing the right thing by leaving the option up to you to get the vaccine or lose your job. They are completely within their rights unless you have a union contract or a bargaining agreement in place.

Quote: Gandler

As far as calling the police on people for not wearing masks, its often the best thing to do. If you are in a store and causing a scene after refusing to put a mask on the police can and should be called.... This is not a small problem, in recent weeks assaults on flight attendants are skyrocketing for the same issue (people not wearing their mask on the plane and getting aggressive when told to leave). I have zero issue with people being arrested after refusing to leave private property (and in many cases the videos are quite amusing, because they actually film themselves thinking they are making some kind of stand by not wearing a mask in a grocery store).

But this is not what I am talking about. I am talking about people meeting amongst themselves but with no masks so Karen calls the cops even though she is not even with them.

People not wearing a mask in a store should just be left alone.

Quote: rxwine

Here's a twist on a version of the same idea.

What if you're a long time employee, but get told you must have the vaccine but you don't want it. You're not going to easily replace the pay or benefits you're getting if you quit instead.

Are you still with the rights of the employer?

Pragmatically, it's conditional. It depends on whether or not it is a customer-facing job. You could always make the free association argument, though.

Quote: AZDuffman

But this is not what I am talking about. I am talking about people meeting amongst themselves but with no masks so Karen calls the cops even though she is not even with them.

People not wearing a mask in a store should just be left alone.

No, it should be the decision of the establishment. And, if you ignore warnings from agents of the establishment and refuse to leave you should be arrested....

Planes are trickier, as pilots and flight attendants basically have federal authority in that once boarded you legally have to follow their instructions. This has historically led to some confrontations, but since COVID (and especially in recent weeks where people feel they do not need masks anymore causing even more of a spike), confrontations and assaults have been skyrocketing.