Ukraine conflict

Quote: JimRockford

Quote: Gandler

Quote: AZDuffman

Biden is getting plenty of credit for his weakness.

I think that is pretty epic cover art actually. Its a cool design, I don't even see what the issue could be (I also tend to be a sucker for when glasses are used like that, and I like aviator glasses more generally).

I was actually thinking of getting aviators for my next pair of sunglasses. Joe Biden made me change my mind.

Both Bushes and Reagan were big on the aviators if it would make you feel any better.

To be honest, I cannot recall Trump ever wearing sunglasses at all (well those famous eclipse glasses if that counts...) That is actually somewhat interesting, a quick google search does not find a single photo of him in sunglasses (aside from those eclipse things).
[in fact every photo of him in regular sunglasses appears blatantly photoshopped for a meme].

Obama wore a wide variety of sunglasses. (Though an article that came up mentions how he only worse glasses with no logo, which is interesting).

Biden seems to have loved aviators for years (I can't find photos of anything else). So if nothing else, he has good taste.

I personally think aviators are the best style of sunglasses for both males and females, political people who may or may not wear them does not change that (I have felt this way as long as I can remember).

I think the earliest memory of a (fictional) character wearing aviators that enthralled me was Lt Col Kilgore (Robert Duvall) in Apocalypse Now and thinking he looked like perfection. I begged my parents for those glasses for Christmas after seeing that movie (don't ask me the brand or style), but I did get them (no clue where they are now). I don't know why, but his sunglasses always stood out for me (and they are still one of the better-looking pairs of aviators, face perfect size, not over the top, no logo, color of the frame matches uniform). Though everything about that character and performance was perfection to be fair (and aside from random pilots while flying, I think he may be only of the only character to wear sunglasses, maybe the only one in the film, perhaps another reason that they stand out).

Quote:

With cities across Ukraine under assault by Russian troops, several NATO countries have started shipping military and humanitarian supplies into Ukraine over land routes as Russian anti-aircraft systems and jets make any air mission too risky.

Over the past two days of fighting, Poland has already started delivering ammunition to the Ukrainian forces by land, and Estonia and Latvia on Friday said they are beginning to truck fuel, Javelin anti-armor weapons, and medical supplies to the Ukraine border for hand-off to Ukrainian forces.

The new overland option is something that “we’re prepared to do for weeks, for months, whatever it takes,” one diplomat from a NATO country told POLITICO.

With the skies now largely owned by Russian fighter planes and Ukraine’s military airports cratered by missile attacks, allied resupply has had to shut down the well-publicized air bridge that had shuttled planeloads of Javelins and anti-air Stinger missiles into Ukraine in recent weeks. From here on out, Ukrainian forces will have to make do with a series of more modest truck convoys.

Wow
BBC reporter from Ukraine describing damage in a video when she sees her mother's damaged building

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10551547/Moment-Ukrainian-BBC-presenter-Olga-Malchevska-left-speechless-seeing-home-Kyiv.html

I'm still gobsmacked that members on the right here blame Biden instead of Putin for these evil acts

Quote: terapined

Wow
BBC reporter from Ukraine describing damage in a video when she sees her mother's damaged building

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10551547/Moment-Ukrainian-BBC-presenter-Olga-Malchevska-left-speechless-seeing-home-Kyiv.html

I'm still gobsmacked that members on the right here blame Biden instead of Putin for these evil acts

I haven’t seen a single member here not blame Putin. Mentioning that Ukraine was safe for the 4 years when Trump controlled our military and not so much when Biden became commander in chief is not absolving Putin of blame. History is full of bad actors that took advantage of the weakness of good people. I think Putin had no way to predict loony Trump’s response and thus waited for a Biden who he knew would not use the military and would resort to ‘sanctions’.

Quote: SOOPOO

I haven’t seen a single member here not blame Putin. Mentioning that Ukraine was safe for the 4 years when Trump controlled our military and not so much when Biden became commander in chief is not absolving Putin of blame. History is full of bad actors that took advantage of the weakness of good people.

Quote:

I think Putin had no way to predict loony Trump’s response and thus waited for a Biden who he knew would not use the military and would resort to ‘sanctions’.

Have to highlight this last line. I've actually heard the suggestion from left and right that Biden should have suggested military action against Russia should have been suggested as possible.

If Biden had suggested he was open to putting boots on the ground directly against the Russians to defend a non-NATO country, he would have likely been impeached.

Just because the sentiment has changed in sympathy for what's happening in Ukraine, doesn't mean my point wouldn't be valid even 2 months ago. Btw, there still would be a lot of howls for any direct involvement right now where American troops might get involved. I think most people support sending in military supplies and what not at this moment.

Also, if the Putin didn't expect NATO nations to interfere on the sidelines, he sure wasn't thinking clearly. Warning him of that shouldn't be necessary, he should have expected it.

Quote: rxwine

Have to highlight this last line. I've actually heard the suggestion from left and right that Biden should have suggested military action against Russia should have been suggested as possible.

If Biden had suggested he was open to putting boots on the ground directly against the Russians to defend a non-NATO country, he would have likely been impeached.

Just because the sentiment has changed in sympathy for what's happening in Ukraine, doesn't mean my point wouldn't be valid even 2 months ago. Btw, there still would be a lot of howls for any direct involvement right now where American troops might get involved. I think most people support sending in military supplies and what not at this moment.

Also, if the Putin didn't expect NATO nations to interfere on the sidelines, he sure wasn't thinking clearly. Warning him of that shouldn't be necessary, he should have expected it.

Shouldn't have sent any military supplies if NATO wasn't willing to put boots on the ground, an utter waste of money and Russia ends up with the weapons and more people will die. Russia will have effective control this weekend if not already. The only thing that would have stopped Putin was if he was unsure of direct military involvement by NATO forces.

Quote: kenarman

Shouldn't have sent any military supplies if NATO wasn't willing to put boots on the ground, an utter waste of money and Russia ends up with the weapons and more people will die. Russia will have effective control this weekend if not already. The only thing that would have stopped Putin was if he was unsure of direct military involvement by NATO forces.

Not too worried about Russians getting the equipment we're sending. We don't send anything they wouldn't already have intelligence on. And they still have plenty of their own in reserve.

Also, Canada is in NATO. If you want your guys going in, fine with me.

Quote: rxwine

Also, Canada is in NATO. If you want your guys going in, fine with me.

We did send some not combat 'advisors' that have since pulled out. Whether you or I wanted NATO troops on ground or not once Biden, Trudeau and other leaders talked sanctions and made it obvious there would be no troops on the ground we gave a green light to Putin.

Would Putin have gone ahead if we had threatened to send a missile or 2 into Russia? Maybe we would have started WWIII or maybe he would have said, okay you called my bluff. We will never know. What we do know is he isn't stopping once he has the Ukraine. Where do you want to stop him? What country will be one too many?

This very different from Vietnam, Afghanistan, or the Middle East wars. I those wars you are fighting people in their own country in a civil war. Ukraine is an invasion of an independent country by a larger neighbour with ongoing expansion plans, think Hitler and WWII.

Quote: kenarman

Shouldn't have sent any military supplies if NATO wasn't willing to put boots on the ground, an utter waste of money and Russia ends up with the weapons and more people will die. Russia will have effective control this weekend if not already. The only thing that would have stopped Putin was if he was unsure of direct military involvement by NATO forces.

No, not that quickly. They are already making far slower progress than they had planned. Its not going to be like Afghanistan where a Country was taken overnight.
Russia is not going to be able to take the Country quickly, lots of geographic chokepoints, lots of cities (which as we are seeing become places of stagnation), and its just a large Country to begin with (by size). My guess is Ukraine can resist almost indefinitely because of the size, and geography of the country, and the longer the invasion takes the better for Ukraine (every day will bring other countries more willing to consider intervening, Russia losing motivation, etc...)

There is more resistance (not even from the military, but from the general population) than Russia planned, and it appears the Ukraine government is essentially giving out guns to all males 18-60 and encouraging them to fight and not flee, which is why every City is a challenge.

Also, the politicians seem to have a lot more guts than some other countries (refusing the evacuate, and fighting on the frontline in some cases).

Ukraine is also divided by a large River (where the capital sits), so this creates a lot of chokepoints for land access from one side of the country to the other.

My guess is this will go on for some time, eventually Russia will lose the will, and there will be talks, and they may demand some arbitrary land. Of course, this assumes that other countries get involved, this could change things (right now none of Ukraine's allies seem willing to even muse about sending troops on the ground), they seem mostly concerned with fortifying their own borders.

But, whatever the case is, Ukraine is not going to be taken over anytime soon. Even very pro-Russia estimates that are generous think at least a month would be needed for total control (and that would be a month of full no holds barred invasion), and they are already off track for that.

Even China is keeping their distance from Russia, Russia's allies are thin (Belarus essentially). Ukraine's allies can fill a page, but none are stepping up to commit any kind of action.

I don't think most people understand how dangerous this situation is. These are developed countries with modern militaries engaged in a conventional war. And, one is a nuclear power. This already is the largest war of our lifetime, and it has the potential (possibly the likelihood) to spiral and its in Europe, at the border of the West, not some distant land.

The only way this year can get any worse is if China invades Taiwan, and India and Pakistan go for Kashmir (this is not directly related, but they may view the distraction of the international community as an opportunity). Despite the Olympics, this may turn out to be a very violent year, and in many cases there is no good result. Its very depressing that so many developed countries are at war or on the cusp in 2022....