The Biden Presidency 2023

I added a video in case you missed it, explaining all the problems with hydrogen cell cars. However, if forced to choose, I might like a hydrogen cell car better than an electric one [not sure]

I'm just really bothered by the ignorance [or complicity?] of reporters [again] in that article. It is so disappointing to see the glib promotion of hydrogen cell technology as what it is not! .......... here is a list of it,

"hydrogen, a clean-burning fuel" ....................... OK! correct!!
"help fight climate change" ................... nope!
"Supporters say this will help replace natural gas, powering vehicles and generating electricity" .......... maybe supporters say that, but it's misleading. Itself, it can't produce energy and replace any fuel, except what fuel may be burning out on the road

"advancement of the clean energy sector" .................. misleading. Burns clean, but has nothing else to do with energy production.

much of this is repeated over and over, which I will not highlight more than once

The energy used has to be less than the energy returned.

One way is using the Sun to crack the molecular bond (certainly not electricity LOL), like a biological plant does.

But you're correct, they're just scamming to grab the cash.

And if you're going to use the Sun to crack the molecular bond like a biological plant does, the ideal place to locate in the USA is Arizona, certainly not Michigan.


Another way, even in Michigan, is to use the electricity in the atmosphere, like Nicola Tesla was doing.

That'll work too.

Quote: DoubleGold

And if you're going to use the Sun to crack the molecular bond like a biological plant does, the ideal place to locate in the USA is Arizona, certainly not Michigan.


Another way, even in Michigan, is to use the electricity in the atmosphere, like Nicola Tesla was doing.

That'll work too.

well, the sun producing energy is in solar power [electricity] and photosynthesis [biomass], not related to directly producing hydrogen. Unless I'm missing something.

this is the point in the video summarizing the problems, https://youtu.be/Zklo4Z1SqkE?t=1005

The total energy returned (the hydrogen in the water molecule) has to be more than the energy used to crack the bond (Hydrogen / Oxygen).

When using solar panels to generate the electricity to break the water bond (or could be a water turbine, wind turbine, etc.), the extra step of conversion rules that out, because there's a cost for solar panel electricity (and then electrolysis) higher than what's returned in the hydrogen.

However, electricity harvested from the atmosphere would work, because it's already in the required form for electrolysis.


We've already discovered a way to do it using direct Sun energy and ignoring the extra steps of electrolysis and solar panels, etc.


Electricity is an unnecessary step.

Quote: DoubleGold

The total energy returned (the hydrogen in the water molecule) has to be more than the energy used to crack the bond (Hydrogen / Oxygen).

When using solar panels to generate the electricity to break the water bond (or could be a water turbine, wind turbine, etc.), the extra step of conversion rules that out, because there's a cost for solar panel electricity (and then electrolysis) higher than what's returned in the hydrogen.

However, electricity harvested from the atmosphere would work, because it's already in the required form for electrolysis.


We've already discovered a way to do it using direct Sun energy and ignoring the extra steps of electrolysis and solar panels, etc.


Electricity is an unnecessary step.

you learns something new every day, googled

What is the direct solar water splitting process hydrogen?

Hydrogen Production: Photoelectrochemical Water Splitting ...
In photoelectrochemical (PEC) water splitting, hydrogen is produced from water using sunlight and specialized semiconductors called photoelectrochemical materials, which use light energy to directly dissociate water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen.

and you get O2 too!



no indication of cost/practicality, presumably cheaper than first producing electricity from solar panels

https://solaredition.com/hydrogen-production-from-solar-energy-direct-water-splitting/

Quote: odiousgambit

you learns something new every day, googled

What is the direct solar water splitting process hydrogen?

Hydrogen Production: Photoelectrochemical Water Splitting ...
In photoelectrochemical (PEC) water splitting, hydrogen is produced from water using sunlight and specialized semiconductors called photoelectrochemical materials, which use light energy to directly dissociate water molecules into hydrogen and oxygen.

Here's one way how to do it:


A biological plant knows how to do it efficiently (photosynthesis).

Except a plant (fossil fuel) combines carbon with the hydrogen (carbohydrate) and discards the oxygen.

We don't need to supply the carbon like a plant does but we can also discard the oxygen.

We just need the hydrogen (in water).


I think it comes down to using an inexpensive metal (catalyst) other than platinum to implement it.

Something like nickel.

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Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT)

Sep 27, 2011

An "artificial leaf" made by Daniel Nocera and his team, using a silicon solar cell with novel catalyst materials bonded to its two sides, is shown in a container of water with light (simulating sunlight) shining on it. The light generates a flow of electricity that causes the water molecules, with the help of the catalysts, to split into oxygen and hydrogen, which bubble up from the two surfaces.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEEhxk-CiOQ

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No one here has been endorsing hydrogen cells. Or at least not me.

Based on my memory, it was the last Popular Mechanics magazine I read in a paper version where I first saw them. So, quite awhile ago. Reminds me, they had a car advertised that could sustain high mph crashes. Only problem was it still scrambled the passenger's brains from the impact. It's didn't crumple.

Quote: odiousgambit

and you get O2 too!



no indication of cost/practicality, presumably cheaper than first producing electricity from solar panels

https://solaredition.com/hydrogen-production-from-solar-energy-direct-water-splitting/

It's been a while since I've studied this so it might take me awhile to provide the calcs involved.


I went so far as to design an apparatus (using a drafting program like AutoCad) doing something similar.

I based it upon a translucent ball form focusing sunlight onto water, like a magnifying glass, except the translucent ball would contain water.

It could be a huge ball form filled with water to focus light to crack water.

My idea is I could separate the light waves using grating.


Then whatever light was not needed to crack the bond, I could use it for photosynthesis, etc.

Light waves are valuable.

Especially specific wavelengths for plants.

For example, green wavelength is usually reflected and not used, so that energy is wasted.

Blue and magenta are valuable for specific growth stages.