Religious belief drops

Page 4 of 9<1234567>Last »
May 23rd, 2023 at 10:09:59 AM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: rxwine
Anyway, prison is a place you should avoid if you care about what kind of bad things that might happen to you.


Right!? Not that everyone who has ever been there is guilty of an offense warranting that, or necessarily any at all, but that's just the way the system works. If you're a transwoman and don't feel safe amongst men, then you should have the option to spend your entire sentence in solitary confinement. Really, anyone should have that option.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
May 23rd, 2023 at 1:19:25 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Mission146


For me, the dividing line on religion is if I ask someone, "Are you 100% positive that there is absolutely a God? Do you claim to know this as a matter of absolute and indisputable fact?"


Indisputable fact? Are you aware why they call it "faith?"
The President is a fink.
May 23rd, 2023 at 1:25:22 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: AZDuffman
Indisputable fact? Are you aware why they call it "faith?"


Congratulations. You are either sane, telling the truth, reasonably intelligent...or some combination of those things.

With that out of the way, let's stop pretending that there aren't people out there who would answer this question with a flat, "Yes."
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
May 23rd, 2023 at 1:31:59 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Mission146
Congratulations. You are either sane, telling the truth, reasonably intelligent...or some combination of those things.

With that out of the way, let's stop pretending that there aren't people out there who would answer this question with a flat, "Yes."


I am just pointing out how to handle the haters who say "prove it!" If you choose not to believe fine with me. But a person saying they will believe when they get scientific proof is making a jerk out of themself as it is "faith." As to me one of my big proofs is that life does not spring up from nothing, science says so. Thus some force created life.

I doubt I am sane.......
The President is a fink.
May 23rd, 2023 at 1:40:22 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: AZDuffman
I am just pointing out how to handle the haters who say "prove it!" If you choose not to believe fine with me. But a person saying they will believe when they get scientific proof is making a jerk out of themself as it is "faith." As to me one of my big proofs is that life does not spring up from nothing, science says so. Thus some force created life.

I doubt I am sane.......


They're not making a jerk out of themselves; they are simply stipulating the conditions necessary for them to believe something.

Science, essentially, suggests that. However, having accepted that, now we have to get to the point where the, 'Design,' was, 'Intelligent,' which is to say, brought about by way of some other sentient thing. If so, then where did that sentient thing come from and by what mechanism was it created?

In other words, as far as we can tell, we're always going to arrive at the question of, "How did something come from nothing?" If not that question, then, "How did form come from that which was without form?"

Even ignoring the, "Who creates the creator," angle, you'd have to ask, "Why the God of Abraham, specifically?" Why not some other God? Why, if there is indeed a God to begin with, could the God of Abraham not be a bastardization of the actual God who may have actually been once known?

Faith and belief---which you academically accept as not being within spitting distance of knowledge; some believers do not accept that.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
May 23rd, 2023 at 2:04:59 PM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: Mission146
They're not making a jerk out of themselves; they are simply stipulating the conditions necessary for them to believe something.


They are making a jerk out of themselves in demanding an answer to something they already know has no answer. Assuming they are intelligent to know what "faith" is.

Quote:
Science, essentially, suggests that. However, having accepted that, now we have to get to the point where the, 'Design,' was, 'Intelligent,' which is to say, brought about by way of some other sentient thing. If so, then where did that sentient thing come from and by what mechanism was it created?


You do not get to figure that out in this life. That is where the faith part comes in. As a Catholic you are taught God has three forms. Father, Son, Holy Ghost. But you do not get to learn the logistics of this until you make it to heaven if even then. File that under you do not get to know what the officers are talking about if you are enlisted or the suits are talking about if you are just a low level employee. Again, the faith part.



In other words, as far as we can tell, we're always going to arrive at the question of, "How did something come from nothing?" If not that question, then, "How did form come from that which was without form?"

Even ignoring the, "Who creates the creator," angle, you'd have to ask, "Why the God of Abraham, specifically?" Why not some other God? Why, if there is indeed a God to begin with, could the God of Abraham not be a bastardization of the actual God who may have actually been once known?

Faith and belief---which you academically accept as not being within spitting distance of knowledge; some believers do not accept that.

Humans are unable to fully comprehend eternity. That the universe has always been here and always will be. With that you get to a creator. As matter cannot come from nothing (more science!) the argument gets stronger. But again, you get to understand that which you cannot comprehend on the other side, hopefully.
The President is a fink.
May 23rd, 2023 at 2:24:21 PM permalink
Mission146
Administrator
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 23
Posts: 4147
Quote: AZDuffman
They are making a jerk out of themselves in demanding an answer to something they already know has no answer. Assuming they are intelligent to know what "faith" is.


Yeah, when the Christian claims to KNOW, which you are not doing, I think I am in my rights to demand proof of them.

In your case, you admit that you not only don't, but can't actually know; given that, I wouldn't demand anything of you as I am already satisfied.

Quote:
You do not get to figure that out in this life. That is where the faith part comes in. As a Catholic you are taught God has three forms. Father, Son, Holy Ghost. But you do not get to learn the logistics of this until you make it to heaven if even then. File that under you do not get to know what the officers are talking about if you are enlisted or the suits are talking about if you are just a low level employee. Again, the faith part.


If I'm an enlisted soldier, for one thing, I know that there are officers who exist.

Again, you admit that you don't actually know, which is satisfactory to me. I have no reason to continue in this particular line.

Quote:
Humans are unable to fully comprehend eternity. That the universe has always been here and always will be. With that you get to a creator. As matter cannot come from nothing (more science!) the argument gets stronger. But again, you get to understand that which you cannot comprehend on the other side, hopefully.


I don't know of what relevance the full comprehension of eternity is unless you already believe. I can comprehend death. There was a world that must have existed before my presence, and to one extent or another, will exist after my presence in it has concluded. That aspect doesn't bother me whatsoever.

I don't think that gets you to a sentient creator. It's fine if it does, for you, but it doesn't get me there. For one thing, I don't actually need the design to be intelligent. Secondly, "Who creates the creator?," that whole thing.

Again, if we assume a starting state of matter, why is the matter sentient? If the matter is not itself sentient, but was reconfigured by an entity who is, then where did the sentient entity come from? Why is the entity sentient? Why can that entity exist and operate outside of matter? Even if we had a reason for all of those things, it would still fail to get us to a specific God that renders all others impossible.

But, again, you admit you don't know. I don't know, either. I have accepted this will likely be something I'll never know. It's good enough for me.
"War is the remedy that our enemies have chosen..let us give them all they want." William T. Sherman
May 24th, 2023 at 3:56:16 AM permalink
DoubleGold
Member since: Jan 26, 2023
Threads: 30
Posts: 2476
There's a difference in "knowing" and presenting scientific proof of "knowing".

The first case involves a human spirit (wisdom, intuition, etc.) and the second case a soul (mind).


For example, a child of a living mother goes out with a friend in the friend's car.

The child and the friend get in a car crash.

The mother instantly "knows" something is wrong.

But her mind doesn't "know" until she is informed.
May 24th, 2023 at 5:53:02 AM permalink
AZDuffman
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 135
Posts: 18136
Quote: DoubleGold
There's a difference in "knowing" and presenting scientific proof of "knowing".

The first case involves a human spirit (wisdom, intuition, etc.) and the second case a soul (mind).


For example, a child of a living mother goes out with a friend in the friend's car.

The child and the friend get in a car crash.

The mother instantly "knows" something is wrong.

But her mind doesn't "know" until she is informed.


"Knowing" and "proving" are different indeed.

Within 48 hours the cops knew who pulled the Lufthansa heist. They never proved it in court.

I once had an employee kept writing sarcastic notes on the whiteboard about pay rates. I told him not to think I did not know he was the one doing it. Even though I never saw him to "prove" it I knew it.
The President is a fink.
May 24th, 2023 at 5:58:56 AM permalink
DoubleGold
Member since: Jan 26, 2023
Threads: 30
Posts: 2476
Quote: AZDuffman
"Knowing" and "proving" are different indeed.

Within 48 hours the cops knew who pulled the Lufthansa heist. They never proved it in court.

I once had an employee kept writing sarcastic notes on the whiteboard about pay rates. I told him not to think I did not know he was the one doing it. Even though I never saw him to "prove" it I knew it.



Good post.


There's another "knowing".

When a man and woman copulate.

I think it's a combination of the other two types of "knowing" (human spirit, soul, and body).
Page 4 of 9<1234567>Last »