Can children be groomed to be gay or Trans

Quote: Gandler

What percent would have committed suicide before 18 if they were not able to transition, is it higher or lower than 1%? I would guess lower, meaning yes it would be a good regulation.

Also, I am a bit skeptical of that study, because people who regretted it so much to the point of shame would never participate.

And, what about post transition suicides? (This is actually far more common than pre-transitiln)? My guess is close to 100% of these suicides are because of extreme regret... Could a small number be due to bullying and social isolation? Possibly, but not the majority.

Would you let kids have a medication that improved the symptoms of a medical condition in their day to day lives while increasing a seriouus rate of a dangerous cancer 15 years down the road for 3% of them:

I would leave that up to the doctor, kid and parent of minors. Not me.

Quote: rxwine

Would you let kids have a medication that improved the symptoms of a medical condition in their day to day lives while increasing a seriouus rate of a dangerous cancer 15 years down the road for 3% of them:

I would leave that up to the doctor, kid and parent of minors. Not me.

Medication is different than elective surgery. I have no issue with medication or hormone therapy. The difference is surgery is immediately irreversible.

Dangerrous cancer in 15 years for 3 % of the kids using it makes no difference to you? That's even higher than the probable 1% of regret trans.

I don't understand why that's different for you wanting to intervene.

Quote: rxwine

Dangerrous cancer in 15 years for 3 % of the kids using it makes no difference to you? That's even higher than the probable 1% of regret trans.

I don't understand why that's different for you wanting to intervene.

It's simple, one is immediate and irreversible.

The hypothetical of a certain medication increasing a certain cancer for certain users later in life is a risk analysis that somebody could sit down with their doctor about.

It makes a difference to me in the sense that if it allowed me to be socially functional today, I would probably accept the risk. But, if it was only a mild change in feeling I would probably not use it.

Also, medication use can be adjusted (or cease) in a 15 year period if they decide later that they don't like the risk (and the risk likley decreases after cessation).

Quote: Gandler

It's simple, one is immediate and irreversible.

The hypothetical of a certain medication increasing a certain cancer for certain users later in life is a risk analysis that somebody could sit down with their doctor about.

It makes a difference to me in the sense that if it allowed me to be socially functional today, I would probably accept the risk. But, if it was only a mild change in feeling I would probably not use it.

Also, medication use can be adjusted (or cease) in a 15 year period if they decide later that they don't like the risk (and the risk likley decreases after cessation).

The only way you can absolutely prevent bad decisions early on of using the medication is block all of it. I think you're just rationalizing that you can save more people but you're still allowing the same potential bad decision to occur for some in 15 years.

Here's another thing that bothers me about this issue. And I apply it to myself as well. Neither of us are experts in this whole thing and neither are 99.99% or more of the rest of the world and we're all trying to definitively decide the issue in some way.

That's part of my problem with the whole backlash against the trans community. All us non-experts want to weigh in. Of course, I blame more of the rightwing than anyone else for starting this up. (and they start with the greater amount of ignorance if you ask me)

Quote: rxwine

Here's another thing that bothers me about this issue. And I apply it to myself as well. Neither of us are experts in this whole thing and neither are 99.99% or more of the rest of the world and we're all trying to definitively decide the issue in some way.

That's part of my problem with the whole backlash against the trans community. All us non-experts want to weigh in. Of course, I blame more of the rightwing than anyone else for starting this up. (and they start with the greater amount of ignorance if you ask me)

Oh I am far from an expert. But, the reality is both of us have probably done far more reading on this issue, and have more real world experience with it than 90% of Congress, and they will still happily pass restrictions or encourage subsidies.

The only way around this is if Congress forms an administrative agency that is an expert on trans issues (like the EPA for the environment) and has the ability to make administrative regulations. But, this is very unlikely to occur. So all decisions will be made by people who know far less than both of us on this issue.

Quote: rxwine

You don't know that. One person on the NPR newscast said she would have committed suicide if she had been made to wait. And we also don't know if there were suicides for that reason that we don't know about.

If you look at some of the most severe trauma cases like war trauma, a certain number of people get debilitating PTSD, and others don't from the same experience. Not everyone is the same.

I don't understand this argument. I think this is the second time. First of all, they SAID that, which doesn't make it true.

Secondly, they might think they are telling the truth, but who's to say that they actually would have done it since that eventuality did not come to pass?

Third, who's to say that having your genitals mutilated as a child and then deciding, at an older age, that you didn't want that wouldn't, similarly, result in suicides?

Fourth, who cares if they commit suicide? If they commit suicide, then there is no longer a problem to be addressed.

Quote: rxwine

You're going to ban 99% to protect the 1%?

Fair enough. Not me though.

https://apnews.com/article/transgender-treatment-regret-detransition-371e927ec6e7a24cd9c77b5371c6ba2b

That says, 'Teens and adults,' now we're talking about two different things. I will say that offering more general statistics unrelated to the specific thing being talked about can often be an effective debate tactic as long as nobody notices.

Quote: Mission146

That says, 'Teens and adults,' now we're talking about two different things. I will say that offering more general statistics unrelated to the specific thing being talked about can often be an effective debate tactic as long as nobody notices.

Okay, and what age does a teen become an adult? I say no one can prove this to any degree. Some people have put it at puberty. Some say, it's what anyone says, which seems to be more the case.

Info on puberty.

Quote:

The average age for girls to start puberty is 11, while for boys the average age is 12. But it's perfectly normal for puberty to begin at any point between the ages of 8 and 13 in girls and 9 and 14 in boys.

I decided to take a different angle, in case you have nothing better to think about at the moment. : )