Immigration Reform

Quote: Gandler

Theft is quite literally taking without consent or right. If you agree to the terms and they have a legal right (or reasonable expectation), it is by definition not theft.

Property taxes are some of the most consensual taxes in history, because all debates are very local with lots of input and pressure from the community (and you have endless recourse to challenge their valuation and methods for individual issues.) These are not decided by some arbitrary legislature on the other side of the world.

Your example is extortion. Unless taking care of the local wiseguys was in the contract, in which case they are part of the agreement (and unless your signed it under duress, is your problem until you sell.) By this logic, any agreement that people do not like later in life is theft. Why pay student loans if you decide you do not agree with the terms after you graduate? Why pay anything that you agreed to?

Nobody forces you to take student loans. You are forced to pay property taxes, income taxes, and most other taxes.

Consent by force is not consent.

Quote: AZDuffman

Nobody forces you to take student loans. You are forced to pay property taxes, income taxes, and most other taxes.

Consent by force is not consent.

You are not forced to pay property taxes. Student loans actually are more forced than property taxes as there is no way to voluntarily give them up (you cannot even surrender your degree in exchange for forgiveness.) And, since most student loans are related to the Feds, there is a lot of recourse to collect (and very few ways to get out of.)

Property taxes you choose to pay, if you do not want to you can simply not buy property, or if you receive property, you can sell or surrender. If you cannot afford property, you can surrender your property, if you cannot afford student loans, there is no way to surrender your degrees. Property taxes are very community driven, and frankly property taxes are too low in most cities (most residential properties lose the city vase amounts of money, most neighborhoods are money sinks, in most cities a few commercial lots subsidize the whole city -even in "high tax" cities single family residences cost more in infrastructure than they bring in in taxes. And, this compounds as developments get older. So technically all of our lives are subsidized by commerce-.)

And, there is no such thing as, "consent by force." That by definition cannot (and does not) make sense.

Ever wonder why the Republicans don't suggest illegal immigrants should have to work to pay for their deportation? 90% of their whining is costs they don't like in government.

Quote: rxwine

Ever wonder why the Republicans don't suggest illegal immigrants should have to work to pay for their deportation? 90% of their whining is costs they don't like in government.

Sounds like a bad idea. I get the whole "government spending" part of this idea but, once a deportation is ordered, the person should be removed from the country immediately (barring any additional court action allowing them to stay). No time to waste making them work and giving them more opportunities to fade into the masses of illegals never to be found.

We may never stop illegal immigration but we have proven that it can be slowed down in several different ways. I prefer action by the Congress, but the Presidential Pen is mighty and can do a good bit without their help; the process will simply never be complete without a sane policy. The influx of illegals falls squarely on this Administration and their feckless border policy.

The handling of the immigrants who actually get in is a different story because we do need complete policies to handle that issue.

A Presidential order can only do so much.