Immigration Reform

Quote: AZDuffman

Taxes are theft. I have showed how.

Do you believe all taxes are theft? To me they seem necessary for a society to function. Obviously, I think they should be less because many of them are wasteful.

Quote: AZDuffman

I did not take Trump literally on that as it was not meant to be.

Taxes are theft. I have showed how.

That only changes what Trump said, not what you said. Building the wall is still tax theft according to you.

Quote: DRich

Do you believe all taxes are theft? To me they seem necessary for a society to function. Obviously, I think they should be less because many of them are wasteful.

You have no choice but to pay them or else men with guns will come and collect them. That is theft where I come from.

Quote: AZDuffman

You have no choice but to pay them or else men with guns will come and collect them. That is theft where I come from.

Not where I come from. We live in a Democracy where we elect representatives that make laws.

If I’m about to pour poison in a reservoir and a cop tackles me is that assault?
If I walk into a church during a wedding and start screaming at the top of my lungs and three ushers confine me in a side room is that kidnapping?
If I don’t pay my real estate taxes which my elected representatives voted for and the government garnishes my wages is that theft?

No. No. AND NO!!!!

Quote: SOOPOO

Not where I come from. We live in a Democracy where we elect representatives that make laws.

Stop paying your property taxes and see what happens. It will eventually go to court. Then refuse to leave. You will have men with guns at your house to eject you. A version of this repeats for any other tax you pay.

I have no idea what the examples are about so have snipped them.

Just because theft is peacefully submitted to does not make it something other than theft.

Quote: SOOPOO

Not where I come from. We live in a Democracy where we elect representatives that make laws.

If I’m about to pour poison in a reservoir and a cop tackles me is that assault?
If I walk into a church during a wedding and start screaming at the top of my lungs and three ushers confine me in a side room is that kidnapping?
If I don’t pay my real estate taxes which my elected representatives voted for and the government garnishes my wages is that theft?

No. No. AND NO!!!!

Not true! Government doesn’t need to exist, and even if it does exist it can work without tax money. You just live in a cabin and hope everyone follows the same idea.

It’s stupid far rightwing utopia. Stick to a sensible position, like “people hate taxes” or “taxes are too high” and no one will think you’re dumb as a rock.

Quote: rxwine

Not true! Government doesn’t need to exist, and even if it does exist it can work without tax money. You just live in a cabin and hope everyone follows the same idea.

It’s stupid far rightwing utopia. Stick to a sensible position, like “people hate taxes” or “taxes are too high” and no one will think you’re dumb as a rock.

Agree. Regular Joe’s like you and me wouldn’t do well in a society with no taxpayer funded government. I just flushed my toilet. Hooray water tax! And sewer taxes! 3 55 gallon garbage bags left at the foot of my driveway. Disappeared! Hooray garbage tax! I drove to the Y today. Made it orderly and safely. Hooray road taxes!

AZ, of course I DISAGREE with my tax dollars being used for a number of things. The hotel taken over for migrants. The useless Trump and maybe Biden impeachments. Bailing out (pun intended?) New Orleans after the next hurricane hits. Free needles for criminals using illegal drugs. You can add your own….

But it’s the price I (and you!) will pay to live in society. Overall, well worth it.

Quote: AZDuffman

Stop paying your property taxes and see what happens. It will eventually go to court. Then refuse to leave. You will have men with guns at your house to eject you. A version of this repeats for any other tax you pay.

I have no idea what the examples are about so have snipped them.

Just because theft is peacefully submitted to does not make it something other than theft.

It is not theft, you consent to property taxes by buying a house in that jurisdiction. When you close on a residential property, you will get this massive packet walking through the property tax obligations to the various jurisdictions (usually city and county) that will be owed after closing. This is never a shock.

Now I guess you can argue if you unexpectedly inherent a property, sometimes heirs get hit with backlogged obligations. But, you can simply surrender it if you don't want to deal with it (or gift it, sell it to somebody willing to pay the lien, etc...) I have never seen a case in America (or anywhere) where somebody is forced to both take a property and get the obligations current (there is not reason to when they can simply foreclose on people not willing to pay -which is almost always far more profitable than using force and endless court hearings to try to collect a couple thousand dollars-.)

Quote: Gandler

It is not theft, you consent to property taxes by buying a house in that jurisdiction. When you close on a residential property, you will get this massive packet walking through the property tax obligations to the various jurisdictions (usually city and county) that will be owed after closing. This is never a shock.

That does not mean it is not theft. It just means you know about the theft. Same as if you buy a bar and get told you have to take care of the local wiseguy as part of doing business.

Quote: AZDuffman

That does not mean it is not theft. It just means you know about the theft. Same as if you buy a bar and get told you have to take care of the local wiseguy as part of doing business.

Theft is quite literally taking without consent or right. If you agree to the terms and they have a legal right (or reasonable expectation), it is by definition not theft.

Property taxes are some of the most consensual taxes in history, because all debates are very local with lots of input and pressure from the community (and you have endless recourse to challenge their valuation and methods for individual issues.) These are not decided by some arbitrary legislature on the other side of the world.

Your example is extortion. Unless taking care of the local wiseguys was in the contract, in which case they are part of the agreement (and unless your signed it under duress, is your problem until you sell.) By this logic, any agreement that people do not like later in life is theft. Why pay student loans if you decide you do not agree with the terms after you graduate? Why pay anything that you agreed to?