Original Sin?

Quote: FrGamble

Ha, about as much as all the other strange deities you mention.

I've had a cat before. I might have one again.

Quote: FrGamble

Ha, about as much as all the other strange deities you mention.

Talk about strange deities, you have the
strangest. A god who is also his own son
and yet he's not. The mom of the son
who got pregnant by the god who gives
birth to a deity but isn't one herself, and
the son/deity is the same god who got her
pregnant, but he really isn't. This makes
no sense no matter how many times you
claim it does. It's not a 'mystery', it's just
plain old stupid talk that's meant to confuse
the rabble.

Quote: Evenbob

Talk about strange deities, you have the
strangest.

It is true, the God I believe in is unique in all of human history. It is obvious that no one came up with the Trinity but that it was revealed by God Himself. For all the longing of human hearts that echo in the myths throughout the centuries only one religion claims and shows definitively that it came true.

Quote: FrGamble

It is obvious that no one came up with the Trinity but that it was revealed by God Himself.

There is no god, so it was made up completely
out of nothing. That's why it makes no sense.
You worship something you can't even explain
or show the existence of. That was great when
the world was ignorant and thought witches
put curses on everything and devil hid behind
every bush waiting to trick you. But the world
moved on and left your god behind, just like
it does with all gods.

Quote: Evenbob

There is no god, so it was made up completely
out of nothing. That's why it makes no sense.

The only thing that doesn't make sense and that can't be explained is the nonsensical idea that there is no God. Again you have no evidence and not even a logical or reasonable argument supporting your crazy position that there is no God.

Quote: FrGamble

The only thing that doesn't make sense and that can't be explained is the nonsensical idea that there is no God. Again you have no evidence and not even a logical or reasonable argument supporting your crazy position that there is no God.

Religion is the one making the claims,
atheism has to explain nothing. If
religion had a case, it would have
presented it ions ago. We're still
waiting. All you seem to have is the
ambiguous emotion 'love', which
means nothing at all. We love everything,
from kittens to peanut butter to football
to you name it, we 'love' it. It's the most
over used four letter word there is. And
you say god loves us. Woohoo, completely
meaningless, less than meaningless if
possible.

Quote: FrGamble

The only thing that doesn't make sense and that can't be explained is the nonsensical idea that there is no God. Again you have no evidence and not even a logical or reasonable argument supporting your crazy position that there is no God.

There are lots of logical and reasonable arguments supporting the position that there is no god. You just refuse to see them.

As for evidence, as always there can be no evidence of the non-existance of something which can not be seen. To have this kind of evidence, you would have to be able to look somewhere and expect to find something, and not find it. Since there is nowhere we can see where we would expect to find proof that God is real, we can not look there to show that the proof wasn't there.

For every reasonable and logical philosophical argument used as evidence that there is a god, there is a logical and philosophical argument to counter it.

We must stay out of the realm of physical proof. If there is no physical evidence of god's existence, then there can be no physical evidence that he does not exist. I don't understand why you keep asking Bob for that kind of proof, it makes no sense, and you don't hold yourself to the same standard.

You guys can go back and forth forever about how there is no proof that God exists, and there is no proof that he does not. Neither side being able to refute the other does not mean that the other side must be right.

I have linked to page after page of logical arguments demonstrating the logical inconsistencies of the philosophical evidence presented to prove that God is real.

You mentioned free will again, and how god won't interfere with free will.

http://www.vexen.co.uk/religion/theodicy_freewill.html

It seems that in order to avoid interfering with anyone's free will, the only thing you can pray for and receive is god's love and forgiveness.

Quote: Dalex64

There are lots of logical and reasonable arguments supporting the position that there is no god. You just refuse to see them.

There are none at all. The problem will always be that things exist and if there is no God then the reality of existence cannot be explained. There is no logical or reasonable explanation for this without the necessity of what we commonly refer to as God. You can talk about the nonsense of an eternal universe, parallel universes, something coming from nothing, existence randomly popping into existence without a cause, but none of it makes any sense nor is it supported by logic or even scientific observation.

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As for evidence, as always there can be no evidence of the non-existance of something which can not be seen.

Of course there can. If there is nothing to see and this unseen thing has no effect or impact on the world or individuals then you would have evidence of non-existence.

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To have this kind of evidence, you would have to be able to look somewhere and expect to find something, and not find it.

Where did you come up with this strange idea on how to discover if something is real or not?

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For every reasonable and logical philosophical argument used as evidence that there is a god, there is a logical and philosophical argument to counter it.

Yes, there are some very well thought out challenges to the logical philosophical arguments that there is a God. I find that some of them are legitimate and weaken the argument or can create doubt, but none of them come close to showing that the philosophical arguments for God don't make sense or are not logical. Again, this is one of the big differences between theism and atheism. There is no logical philosophical argument for the non-existence of God to be attacked. I guess that puts the atheist in a comfortable position in that they don't have to defend their position because there is nothing that supports their position in the first place. Maybe that is why they can come up with all these good challenges to the theist position.

Quote:

We must stay out of the realm of physical proof. If there is no physical evidence of god's existence, then there can be no physical evidence that he does not exist. I don't understand why you keep asking Bob for that kind of proof, it makes no sense, and you don't hold yourself to the same standard.

There is physical proof that there is a God. Look all around you at the existence of contingent beings. They require a first cause, an unmoved mover, or an all-powerful, eternal, non-contingent, spiritual, personal, all-knowing, being for them to exist.

Quote:

You guys can go back and forth forever about how there is no proof that God exists, and there is no proof that he does not. Neither side being able to refute the other does not mean that the other side must be right.

We again have to be careful about how we use the word proof. None of us I think expect there to be some large neon sign flashing in space making it clear without a doubt that there is a God. What we need to do is gather the evidence, both physical and logical, to make decisions as to what it points to. Everything points to the fact that there is a God. When you say neither side can refute the other, that is only because one side really has no position that has any evidence to support it, in case you are wondering that is the atheist side.

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I have linked to page after page of logical arguments demonstrating the logical inconsistencies of the philosophical evidence presented to prove that God is real.

And some are brilliant and none of them prove that God is not real.

Quote: FrGamble

There is physical proof that there is a God. Look all around you.

This is a useless conversation, you're a
broken record. We've had this exact
conversation a dozen times, I refuse
to get dragged back into your convoluted
ridiculous dogma again. It's like arguing
with a madman in a sanitarium. He see's
what he see's and that's all that he see's.

Quote: FrGamble

The problem will always be that things exist and if there is no God then the reality of existence cannot be explained.

The reality of existence cannot be explained by a god, either, unless you explain the mechanism that makes a god absolutely necessary.