King Ethanol Will Abdicate?

Quote: odiousgambit

Can't fact-check from my knowledge base on everything in your post, but I think you mostly are correct except for this one. Rubbing alcohol is Isopropyl alcohol. I believe that is a petroleum distillate, don't quote me.

A frequently cited irony of drinking rubbing alcohol - a very bad idea - is that it is "more toxic but less intoxicating" than ethanol. I wonder if the same can be said of methanol?

I have boned up a little on cellulose-into-biofuel in the meantime. Anywhere in my posts where I seem to say it is not possible to break down cellulose into something that can be turned into ethanol should stand corrected. However, to say it can't be done easily or economically is correct.

Also, it is always ethanol, not methanol, in biomass production.

Quote: Face

Ethanol is made, methanol is harvested. Ethanol is booze, basically. Ferment sugars and boom, ethanol. Methanol is a product of natural gas. Keep freezing swamp gas and one of the liquids that will eventually condense will be methanol.

Ethanol is yummy. Methanol will make you blind, if you're lucky. Both ream the hell out of a motor's plastics, seals, and metals, but methanol is what they use in those 1,000+HP top fuel dragsters. Some badass r/c cars run on methanol, too.

Methanol is what's in rubbing alcohol. Antifreeze too, methinks. And...I think i'm out of alcohol facts =p

IIRC they at least used to use methanol in Indy cars, methinks they switched to ethanol a few years back. I am not the motorhead I used to be. I'm not sure on rubbing alcohol, but the mineral spirits you buy at THD could be drunk if they didn't poison them intentionally, otherwise they would be taxed as booze. As to anti-freeze I think it has lots of other stuff in it, not sure how suitable alcohol of any type would be as it could easily boil off and lose effectiveness. Yes, today's systems are closed but they were not always so, the term "boil over" meant it. You could have anti-freeze all over the ground after a hard run in summer.

Methanol can be harvested from landfills, and now that I think of it *faceplam* natural gas and oil wells.

Brazil seems to have the right idea, use sugar, which they have lots of.

Boning up a little more, finding that methane is one way to methanol, and certainly methane has natural origins in swamps and landfills.

Quote: odiousgambit

Boning up a little more, finding that methane is one way to methanol, and certainly methane has natural origins in swamps and landfills.

Written test later?

Quote: AZDuffman

Written test later?

You'd all fail :P
As corrected, isopropyl alcohol is in rubbing alcohol but it is not a petroleum distillate, rather synthesized from propene and water, methanol is synthesized from methane or hydrogen and carbon monoxide.

If I'm wrong on the rubbing alcohol (and it sounds I am as that rung a bell), then thanks. I'm just spewing stuff, not speaking as an authority.

Also, on the car stuff, I think I was thinking windshield washer fluid and not antifreeze, and I think that was the isopropyl and not methanol. Meh, I dunno.

But more car stuff, yeah, methanol was used as a fuel for several divisions back in the day. Indy is almost certainly correct, and if it wasn't Indy, then it was F1. I recall a number of fires in open wheelers where no flame was visible. You'd just see a driver freak out and the car blurry due to the heat, but no smoke or flame. It sure is a powerful gas to use if HP is your end goal, but it's mostly used in racing for a reason - those engines are only expected to last 1/4 to 500 miles, max. I don't think the Chevy Boozer would push many units if it needed a full rebuild every week ;)

Windshield washer can contain methanol. Antifreeze formerly contained ethylene glycol but it is very toxic. Its sweet aroma/taste would attract dogs when spilled with a bad outcome. Was changed years ago to propylene glycol which is not toxic.

Quote: Face

But more car stuff, yeah, methanol was used as a fuel for several divisions back in the day. Indy is almost certainly correct, and if it wasn't Indy, then it was F1. I recall a number of fires in open wheelers where no flame was visible. You'd just see a driver freak out and the car blurry due to the heat, but no smoke or flame.

Saw a few when I watched the race as a kid, had no idea what was going on. Was one of those "teachable moments" kids, especially male kids, should see to understand how things work. Not that I want drivers to be on fire, but the older guys in the room need to explain alcohol fires to the kids.

Quote:

I don't think the Chevy Boozer would push many units if it needed a full rebuild every week ;)

I guess you are too young to remember the X-Body? Pieces of junk but sold in huge numbers, an example of how the GM Dealership enterprise could push almost anything back in the day.

A Michigan corn industry commercial claims that ethanol in gasoline saves us over $1 per gallon.

Quote: Dalex64

A Michigan corn industry commercial claims that ethanol in gasoline saves us over $1 per gallon.

As long as I won't be challenged, I can claim anything.

Did I mention btw that I am now able to buy ethanol free gas? And certainly do. For mowers, etc, it is absolutely the only way to go. But I buy it for my vehicles too, which makes my mechanic smile.

http://pure-gas.org/