Confessional

Quote: FrGamble

There is plenty of evidence that every word of my religion is true.

So far we've seen no real evidence that
any of it is true. Have you been holding
out on us? So when Jesus died, all the
tombs of the dead Jewish saints really
opened and they walked and talked
and showed themselves? That's my fave
part of the NT, it's so preposterous, so
ridiculous, so absolutely crazy, it puts
the rest of the NT into perspective.

Ok so it is not murder, it is still very wrong.

Every weekend my Church is full of evidence of the reality of my faith.

Quote: FrGamble

Ok so it is not murder, it is still very wrong.

It's not necessary in most circumstances. I
used to work a suicide hotline in the 70's.
Most people don't want to kill themselves,
they just want help. They don't really need
to die to solve their problems. But for some,
their problems are so painful, so debilitating,
suicide is the only option for them.

Again, like Hemingway. Here was a man who
was a monster celebrity in his own lifetime.
He was a mans man, he was the model of
masculinity and bravado. To have all that
stripped away from you at 60 years of age.
He couldn't fish or hunt anymore, and he
certainly couldn't write. For Hemingway to
put the barrel of a shotgun in his mouth was
the ultimate statement of a man saying, I'm
still here, I can still make important decisions
for myself. And I choose not to live as a pitiful
shadow of who I was. Thanks anyway, but
I'm leaving. Adios.

Quote: FrGamble

Every weekend my Church is full of evidence of the reality of my faith.

And every week in the local Hindu church
is evidence of the reality of their faith.
Or the Jewish temple, or the Mormon church.
Lots of people have faith in lots of things,
that doesn't mean any of it is true. That's
why it's called faith, they hope it's real.

Quote: FrGamble

Ok so it is not murder, it is still very wrong.

What about when a Marine jumps on a grenade to save his unit?

Quote: petroglyph

What about when a Marine jumps on a grenade to save his unit?

Some suicides get you the Medal of Honor. You
see suicide in the movies all the time. Last season
Wayward Pines ended with the main character
choosing to die to save his friends. According
to Xtionity he will rot in hell forever for taking
his own life. No grey areas in religion.

Quote: Evenbob

Some suicides get you the Medal of Honor. You
see suicide in the movies all the time. Last season
Wayward Pines ended with the main character
choosing to die to save his friends. According
to Xtionity he will rot in hell forever for taking
his own life. No grey areas in religion.

Good on ya for working the hotline.

I didn't suggest suicide for younger relatively healthy people, maybe their desire to terminate is depression.

But there is a big difference between that and someone who has lived their life in a fruitful way, did all the right things and isn't depressed.

Particularly cancer victims, who have had debilitating chemo and radiation and even the suggestion of different treatments is only palliative. FG's suggestion that those suffering must stay on this plain, medicated to the point of not being aware of their surroundings, until their organs fail is cruel and inhumane.

What is his reason for making these people suffer continually without any chance of getting well or out of suffering?

I think people need a reason to get up and continue, when there is no possibility of getting better, some just deserve the respect of discontinuing their misery. At least Oregon realizes this.

Quote: petroglyph

What about when a Marine jumps on a grenade to save his unit?

Most definitely not suicide! This is an altruistic act with the motivation to save others lives. These are our celebrated martyrs. They say the surest way to Heaven is to die for the faith or for others.

Quote: petroglyph

Good on ya for working the hotline.

Yes, kudos to you sir.

Quote:

I didn't suggest suicide for younger relatively healthy people, maybe their desire to terminate is depression.

Good we are in agreement here. Do you notice though that when these assisted suicide laws are put in the books people begin to ask to die for all sorts of things including treatable things like suicide or self-esteem issues.

Quote:

Particularly cancer victims, who have had debilitating chemo and radiation and even the suggestion of different treatments is only palliative. FG's suggestion that those suffering must stay on this plain, medicated to the point of not being aware of their surroundings, until their organs fail is cruel and inhumane.

Kindly sir please stop putting words in my mouth or attributing to me things I have already many times rejected. I am NOT saying that anyone should be stay in some sort of state of suffering. Are you saying we should withhold palliative care and just kill them before they die a natural death, which by the way is when our organs fail? I hope you are not saying that!

Ironically we are both even talking about the same medications such as morphine. I'm suggesting giving someone the right amount so that they are no longer in pain. Even though an unintended side-effect of this medication is hastening death and organ failure the alleviation of our loved one's pain is the purpose. You seem to be suggesting that we just give our loved one an immediate lethal dose of morphine to kill them. I disagree with you wholeheartedly.