Right and Wrong

Quote: boymimbo

The Bible documents Jesus' resurrection. If that story is indeed true and could be historically colloborated, I think we would be way beyong speculation and wishful thinking.

The thing is a myriad other texts "document" all sorts of other miraculous events from many sources. If any of them were real and could be proven, well...

Quote: boymimbo

The Bible documents Jesus' resurrection. If that story is indeed true and could be historically colloborated, I think we would be way beyong speculation and wishful thinking.

Then why would you need faith if it
was absolutely proven to be true. You
can't have both. If you can prove it's
fact, faith never enters the picture.

The whole religion falls apart if it's proven.
Faith is why you're saved, blind faith that
following Jesus gets you to heaven. What's
the point if facts give you no choice.

You can't take away the importance of faith, we live by faith constantly throughout our lives. Living by faith is essential for our day to day lives. You would never eat at a restaurant, stop at a red light, go to the grocery store, love anyone, etc. if you had to establish every fact before acting. Faith just has to be reasonable.

For example the Resurrection of Jesus Christ has transformed the entire world. We date our years by a person who was crucified as a Roman criminal and then his disciples boldly claimed He was risen. Easy to prove otherwise but no one ever could. Then these fishermen and disciples who loved and followed Jesus suffered and died to spread the Gospel message that He has truly Risen and so could we! Never once did any of them say, well the Resurrection was a figurative term. They were tortured and hunted down and their passion inspired more and more people to believe. They simply would not do this for a myth or some made up story. They had experienced in a real way the Risen Lord Jesus Christ and they couldn't stop proclaiming it. Billions of people since them have had similar real personal experiences of Jesus Christ in their lives which has transformed them for the better. The facts are there not to prove this to you, but to reasonably invite you to have faith in Him as well.

Quote: FrGamble

The facts are there not to prove this to you, but to reasonably invite you to have faith in Him as well.

That other people had faith isn't proof
of anything. People once had faith the
world was flat, where did that get them.
Faith and a dollar will get you a cheeseburger
off the dollar menu at McD's..

All those folks in Guyana had faith in Jim
Jones. That worked out real well..

Quote: FrGamble

Faith just has to be reasonable.

Indeed it does have to be reasonable. JC and the Holy trinity is not reasonable enough for me. It's not required for my every day life to have faith in the Bible. If he exists, or not, it doesn't matter. Until I die, then I might get tested on whether I passed some rules for living.

I can get busy living, or get busy dying.

I choose Life.

Quote: Evenbob

That other people had faith isn't proof
of anything. People once had faith the
world was flat, where did that get them.
Faith and a dollar will get you a cheeseburger
off the dollar menu at McD's..

All those folks in Guyana had faith in Jim
Jones. That worked out real well..

It's pretty obvious that the Earth has been proven to be round and those whose faith was put in its flatness were wrong. Many times people put their faith in the wrong things. Usually its because they aren't really thinking soundly about something, simply trusting their emotions, not listening to experts, or not thorough enough in their exploration of the facts. Nobody has yet proved having faith in Jesus Christ is wrong or not beneficial. In fact pretty much everything points not only to the existence of the special person of Jesus of Nazareth, but that belief in Him can transform your life for the better.

Faith and a dollar will make you smart enough to not eat at McDonalds and buy an apple instead.

Quote: FrGamble

You can't take away the importance of faith, we live by faith constantly throughout our lives. Living by faith is essential for our day to day lives. You would never eat at a restaurant, stop at a red light, go to the grocery store, love anyone, etc. if you had to establish every fact before acting. Faith just has to be reasonable.

I'm not sure I'd call that faith. What you're referring to, I'd call trust. I don't have faith that the sun will rise, I trust it will rise. I don't put much thought or emotion into it.

Quote: FrGamble

Nobody has yet proved having faith in Jesus Christ is wrong or not beneficial.

I've read the NT several times and I got the
strong impression the writers, especially Paul,
were expecting Jesus to return in those days,
any time, not 2000+ years later. If you could
speak to Paul, he would be amazed he has not
returned yet. So from that aspect alone, the
religion is a failure.

It's very much like any other myth. The new generation
teaches the kids that there indeed is a Santa and
the kids believe it until they wise up. Same with
the returning Jesus myth, only some never wise
up.

Quote: TheCesspit

JC and the Holy trinity is not reasonable enough for me.

It's not reasonable, period. (*)

It's also no wonder the Christian apologists turned to Plato for a philosophical foundation. Things like the trinity are anathema to a more rigorous, logical system like Aristotle's.


(*) When you read up on late Roman history, it's amazing how many conflicts there were concerning the definition of the trinity.

Quote:

I can get busy living, or get busy dying.

At Shawshank everyone's innocent :)

Quote: Nareed

When you read up on late Roman history, it's amazing how many conflicts there were concerning the definition of the trinity.
)

What we see today is what's left after the
early Christians got done screaming at
each other about what the 'truth' was.

Making up the 'real' truth is not an easy
affair, just hide where the bodies of the
dissenters are buried..