Biden's Biggest Blunder

Quote: fleaswatter

Really?

The youtube link works fine for me.

Maybe you need to update your computer:

http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/685/1556/#post174618

Quote: ams288

Quote: fleaswatter

Really?

The youtube link works fine for me.

Maybe you need to update your computer:

http://diversitytomorrow.com/thread/685/1556/#post174618

Hmmmm, posting youtube links works fine for me.



like I said previously, you need to update your computer.

Youtube links work for me on Microsoft Edge and whatever browser my phone is (I think "Samsung Browser").

But, I think there are some issues on other browsers like Internet Explorer (I don't think Youtube links on this site have ever worked great on IE). (Firefox seems to be working tonight, I don't have Chrome on this laptop).

I’m usually posting from my iPhone. Maybe it’s an iOS 15 issue.

Quote: Gandler

I agree that many on the left feel a weird need to defend Islam (which is off because its about as ultra socially conservative as you can get). And, this is something I have never understood.

The right needs to defend freedom of religion including Islam, or admit they don't believe in freedom of religion. It's not freedom of certain religions. It's freedom of religion.

Of course, I think all religion should only exist as free speech anyway. So, I think we need to get rid of the religious exemption altogether.

Quote: rxwine

The right needs to defend freedom of religion including Islam, or admit they don't believe in freedom of religion. It's not freedom of certain religions. It's freedom of religion.

Of course, I think all religion should only exist as free speech anyway. So, I think we need to get rid of the religious exemption altogether.

And furthermore, the absurdity of religion is it doesn't have to be based on facts. That's why Sharia Law is just as valid as the bible verses. And Scientology is just as valid as Buddhism. And human sacrifices were just as valid as anything else. Who has the audacity to declare a religion as false just because it does terrible things? That's the whole point of the entire idiocy. You can believe anything if you want to.

But no, I wouldn't go forced atheism, just put everything under free speech, giving no special weight to what we call religion.

Quote: rxwine

And furthermore, the absurdity of religion is it doesn't have to be based on facts. That's why Sharia Law is just as valid as the bible verses. And Scientology is just as valid as Buddhism. And human sacrifices were just as valid as anything else. Who has the audacity to declare a religion as false just because it does terrible things? That's the whole point of the entire idiocy. You can believe anything if you want to.

Well, I would argue that some religions are more false than others (or I guess falsifiable would be the correct verbiage). And, I would even be comfortable calling them false.

Scientology was invented not so long ago. We know Hubbard's book contains many lies, and the teachings are verifiably untrue. Buddhism is more ancient, we do not know anyone who lived at the same time as the Buddha and the events he taught about. History grants a shield to religion (somewhat ironically).

Same with Mormonism, we know Joseph Smith was a fraud, and not too long ago (he died in the 1840s, which sounds long ago, but its really not), many people were alive who knew him through the early 1900s. This is another religion where there are demonstrably false statements and teachings because of modern references and witnesses. Christianity is again shielded by history in this regard (nobody living or even close to it knew Jesus, his Apostles, or his teachings).

You can also judge religions as more likely false if they make specific claims. (This is a line I stole from Sam Harris, paraphrasing), but saying "Jesus will one day return" is more unlikely than saying "Jesus will return at a specific time and place". (A difference in probability between Mormonism and Christianity, at least most branches of Christianity, I know some extremists sects to make claims to times and place, but these are not biblically based).

I am comfortable saying Mormonism and Scientology are false based on the above two arguments (demonstrable lies/false teachings in their books, and probability of making more specific claims). I think Christianity and Islam are false as well, but this is a negative that cannot be proven (they are shielded by history and more vague claims).


But, this is more philosophical argument, I generally agree with you primary point. Religion should get no special status (tax exempt, is what annoys me the most, especially when we see the number of people living like Kings tax free while taking money from the poor).

As long as you do not engage in anything that is not acceptable (for example we would never allow human or even animal sacrifice in 2020, at least in America regardless of how much you claim that it necessary to your religion), you are free to believe whatever you want. For most of history many (maybe most, especially if you count Empires in Latin America), had religions where animal (and human) sacrifice was the norm. Aztecs and Mayans (two of the largest powers in the New World, pre-Spain, this was a routine, part of their religion), and even Christianity and Islam did (and in some regions and sects) still do animal sacrifice (human sacrifice to a lesser extent than New World religions).

Quote: Gandler

Well, I would argue that some religions are more false than others (or I guess falsifiable would be the correct verbiage). And, I would even be comfortable calling them false.

Scientology was invented not so long ago. We know Hubbard's book contains many lies, and the teachings are verifiably untrue. Buddhism is more ancient, we do not know anyone who lived at the same time as the Buddha and the events he taught about. History grants a shield to religion (somewhat ironically).

Same with Mormonism, we know Joseph Smith was a fraud, and not too long ago (he died in the 1840s, which sounds long ago, but its really not), many people were alive who knew him through the early 1900s. This is another religion where there are demonstrably false statements and teachings because of modern references and witnesses. Christianity is again shielded by history in this regard (nobody living or even close to it knew Jesus, his Apostles, or his teachings).

You can also judge religions as more likely false if they make specific claims. (This is a line I stole from Sam Harris, paraphrasing), but saying "Jesus will one day return" is more unlikely than saying "Jesus will return at a specific time and place". (A difference in probability between Mormonism and Christianity, at least most branches of Christianity, I know some extremists sects to make claims to times and place, but these are not biblically based).

I am comfortable saying Mormonism and Scientology are false based on the above two arguments (demonstrable lies/false teachings in their books, and probability of making more specific claims). I think Christianity and Islam are false as well, but this is a negative that cannot be proven (they are shielded by history and more vague claims).

Good luck convincing any of those groups. Doesn't even matter if the initiator is a complete fraud and knows it. Look at what the instigators of QAnon accomplished.

Also people who will follow evidenced based claims normally, sometimes will claim one can no longer use normal applications of evidence as soon as it comes to supernatural claims. And contradictions matter less than one would think. So does lack of evidence, since lack of evidence is portrayed as something could still be possible.

But really, my point is more about getting rid of any special classification of religion. Then you look at what a group of people claim just like any free speech. Are women second class citizens? Can gays be stoned? Is it okay to kill people who refuse to believe in your belief?

Quote: Gandler

As long as you do not engage in anything that is not acceptable (for example we would never allow human or even animal sacrifice in 2020, at least in America regardless of how much you claim that it necessary to your religion), you are free to believe whatever you want.

I sacrifice a Turkey every year at Thanksgiving.