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Quote: kenarman

A question for the lefties. If the demonstrators in Iran get strong enough to breach the Islamic Consultative Assembly should the protestors be arrested and jailed? If not, why not? How is that any different than Jan 6?

Every country will arrest those who are trying to overthrow it, if they are able.

What's your point?

Quote: kenarman

A question for the lefties. If the demonstrators in Iran get strong enough to breach the Islamic Consultative Assembly should the protestors be arrested and jailed? If not, why not? How is that any different than Jan 6?

It depends on the regime. Iran is a theocracy. However, its big threat is not just how it stifles free speech at home, but abroad, look at Salman Rushie. It uses its power to encourage violence on those who oppose its view (and I say that loosely, because Rushdie's novel was completely innocuous).

Quote: rxwine

Every country will arrest those who are trying to overthrow it, if they are able.

What's your point?

Thank you for finally speaking the truth. Iran would be arresting political opponents just as the US was. Keeping political opponents under control is always disguised as upholding the law. That is why the homeless running amuk and the BLM riots are dealt with so softly. They are not seen as political opponents and thus not endangering the power of those in control.

Quote: kenarman

Thank you for finally speaking the truth. Iran would be arresting political opponents just as the US was. Keeping political opponents under control is always disguised as upholding the law. That is why the homeless running amuk and the BLM riots are dealt with so softly. They are not seen as political opponents and thus not endangering the power of those in control.

Nah, I think you're trying to equate that the only difference between revolutionaries is someone is always calling them terrorists. Were they all equal then there is no difference between ISIS and Iran youth in Iran contesting the government right now. They both may be violating law, but there's a world of difference in what they are fighting for currently.

Quote: rxwine

Nah, I think you're trying to equate that the only difference between revolutionaries is someone is always calling them terrorists. Were they all equal then there is no difference between ISIS and Iran youth in Iran contesting the government right now. They both may be violating law, but there's a world of difference in what they are fighting for currently.

I agree. We are getting there, as you said above, it is not the actions that are the problem. Many claim that the actions are what they are against. Much of the world feels that women should have rights wherever they live. The Moslem religion forbids many of these rights. Both of these positions are moral stances so there can be no absolute right or wrong. Both sides believe they have the moral high ground. All I look for is honesty in a person position and recognizing that there are very few absolutes in the world. This leads to the position that if you believe in freedom, you must then accept that people have the right to disagree with you. This not to say you can't debate the subject but use logic and facts. Not dogma, verbal abuse and censorship.

Quote: kenarman

I agree. We are getting there, as you said above, it is not the actions that are the problem. Many claim that the actions are what they are against. Much of the world feels that women should have rights wherever they live. The Moslem religion forbids many of these rights. Both of these positions are moral stances so there can be no absolute right or wrong. Both sides believe they have the moral high ground. All I look for is honesty in a person position and recognizing that there are very few absolutes in the world. This leads to the position that if you believe in freedom, you must then accept that people have the right to disagree with you. This not to say you can't debate the subject but use logic and facts. Not dogma, verbal abuse and censorship.

The actions are what matters, protesting with violence will lead to arrest (even in America), protesting with speech regardless of how unhinged and obnoxious will not lead to arrest (in America). In Iran, this is not the case, you will be arrested for protesting (or even posting online) in a way that disagrees with their State. The difference between violent and non-violent protests is a huge one. And, the way States respond to them is even larger.

Iran will endlessly arrest peaceful protesters (or even those they suspect of being involved). America will risk itself to protect idiotic peaceful protesters. Its a huge difference in the right of expression.

But, their is a moral high ground. If you believe that men and women are not equal, atheists are evil, and gays should be executed you are wrong and your country is wrong. (And, this is just basic social issues without getting into more nuanced political topics).

Crazy
Road rage
They shoot a gun at each other and hit each other's daughters
WTF

https://lawandcrime.com/crime/two-crazy-drivers-with-a-gun-florida-men-allegedly-shot-each-others-daughters-during-road-rage-incident/

Quote: Gandler

The actions are what matters, protesting with violence will lead to arrest (even in America), protesting with speech regardless of how unhinged and obnoxious will not lead to arrest (in America). In Iran, this is not the case, you will be arrested for protesting (or even posting online) in a way that disagrees with their State. The difference between violent and non-violent protests is a huge one. And, the way States respond to them is even larger.

Iran will endlessly arrest peaceful protesters (or even those they suspect of being involved). America will risk itself to protect idiotic peaceful protesters. Its a huge difference in the right of expression.

But, their is a moral high ground. If you believe that men and women are not equal, atheists are evil, and gays should be executed you are wrong and your country is wrong. (And, this is just basic social issues without getting into more nuanced political topics).

How many arrests in the BLM riots? Lots of violence. Police hurt. Few arrests during all the anti-Trump riots. As I said it is not the actions but the reason for it. That is what the court system is based on. You shoot somebody you might face no consequences, and somebody loses their life at the hands of the state. Morals and politics decide what happens to the shooter even though the action is the same, you shot and killed somebody. If the state has given you the right to kill someone then you don't even go to court. Everybody thinks they are right and if someone disagrees then by definition, they must be wrong. The world is not black and white although most people act like it is.

Quote: kenarman

How many arrests in the BLM riots? Lots of violence. Police hurt.

What BLM riots
Lol
They never attacked the capitol like Trumpers
People have protested peacefully in DC for 250 years
Only Trumpers attacked the capitol
Bottom line. If you break the law, you should be arrested regardless if you are BLM or a Trumper.
Show evidence of a BLMer breaking the law and I'll agree to arrest and prosecution. Why do you support Trumpers that break the law???????????????????

Quote: terapined

What BLM riots
Lol
They never attacked the capitol like Trumpers
People have protested peacefully in DC for 250 years
Only Trumpers attacked the capitol
Bottom line. If you break the law, you should be arrested regardless if you are BLM or a Trumper.
Show evidence of a BLMer breaking the law and I'll agree to arrest and prosecution. Why do you support Trumpers that break the law???????????????????

perhaps no specific BLM person got caught doing anything illegal, in fact the ones in the upper ranks seem to be somewhat careful about that ... it certainly is in their interest, some are getting rich

the period should be called the George Floyd Riots ... Wikipedia, out of sense of wokeness I assume, calls it the George Floyd Protests. It was a period when BLM, the organization that is, was no help at all, but as far as I know that's it .