Confessional

Quote: Evenbob

So there is no way somebody who willfully
commits suicide, who knows it's wrong, can
lose their salvation, whatever that is. That's
what you're saying?

Bob, what are you playing at here. Of course a mortal sin can cause one to lose salvation. Before you go judging someone who has committed suicide though I beg of you read the Catechism!

Quote: Nareed

The allied armies were made up of men and women who, astonishingly, possessed the normal limitations of men and women. Jehovah brags he has no limitations. The allies did the best they could with the information and tools they had. Jehovah knows all and is all-powerful. Therefore Jehovah is a psychopath who enjoys killing people (seeing as he does it so often)

By the way I don't know this Jehovah you keep speaking of but I assume you mean YHWH, the Lord God of the Hebrew Scriptures. Secondly I still don't see why you would think YHWH enjoys killing people? He warns, begs, sends more warnings to the Pharoh to let His people go. He does anything besides force him to let the Israelites free. In regards to Noah it is made clear that there is not a good man left besides Noah and his family. Sin was rampant Could you imagine what it must have been like for humanity in the midst of chaos, violence, unrestrained lust, power, and greed. It was mercy that led to the flood and immediately God repented and sent the rainbow. You simply don't know what you are talking about and are using reduction ad absurdum arguments that are beneath you.

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Because his Christian disciples have done him proud killing and torturing innocent people for not toeing the Christian line.

Again this is just silly. When Christians have done this it has been rejected and denounced. God most certainly is never proud of anyone who kills or tortures innocent people.

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Mention of "atheist" atrocities in 3....2....1....

Do I even need to remind you that atheism has been the cause of more bloodshed than all "religious" wars combined?

Quote: Nareed

BTW, here's the extent of physical and documentary evidence that supports the Biblical account of the Exodus, even remotely:

(Let me fill this in for you a bit)

Evidence for Exodus

Amenhotep II and the Historicity of the Exodus

Exodus not fiction

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It looks remarkably like the evidence that supports the existence of any type of god. Coincidence?

Oh my, we have gone down this road already many times and I have provided many forms of evidence that you either ignore or dismiss. Maybe it would be your turn to provide any evidence as to your extraordinary claim that there is no God? Of course you cannot do this because there is none.

Quote: FrGamble

Bob, what are you playing at here. Of course a mortal sin can cause one to lose salvation.

See? Was that hard? So Jesus doesn't forgive everybody,
as it turns out. What good is he, then.

Quote: FrGamble

Jesus Christ is the most important person in my life, He has changed everything and continues to be my source of peace, joy, and inspiration.

You did the changing, Jesus is dead. His words
may have inspired you, but he himself didn't
do anything to change you. And what's wrong
with that? Why do Christians have to make themselves
look like loons by saying he's alive and talking to
them. It's makes their case for Jesus very weak.

Quote: FrGamble

By the way I don't know this Jehovah you keep speaking of but I assume you mean YHWH, the Lord God of the Hebrew Scriptures.

It's extremely unfair to make anything special about one myth over others. As all other gods are always referred to by name, so should the Judeo-Christian god be.

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Secondly I still don't see why you would think YHWH enjoys killing people?

It's all in the bloodbath of a holy book I assume you have read.

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He warns, begs, sends more warnings to the Pharoh to let His people go. He does anything besides force him to let the Israelites free.

So why not kill the king and be done?

All-powerful god, remember? make it so every man who sits on the throne of the two lands dies by immediate lightning strike the moment the ass hits the seat, and I guarantee not three people would have died in the whole debacle.

On the other hand, if the Hebrews wanted to impress their neighbors by showing how their one god was superior to their many gods, making a cruel, capricious, mean deity would be a good fit.

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In regards to Noah it is made clear that there is not a good man left besides Noah and his family. Sin was rampant Could you imagine what it must have been like for humanity in the midst of chaos, violence, unrestrained lust, power, and greed.

And yet you have said, numerous times, right here, that the world has been getting worse by the day. Since we've seen, and documented, things like WWI, WWII, Vietnam, the Khmer Rouge, the Cultural Revolution, the Crusades, the wars between Protestant and catholic countries, the Inquisition, etc. just what were the ancients in Noah's time doing? Killing off Egyptian babies? Oh, no, wait, that's the wrong Biblical character. My bad.

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It was mercy that led to the flood and immediately God repented and sent the rainbow.

An all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving, all-merciful being wouldn't need to repent because he wouldn't have killed everyone off. He'd know ahead of time he'd regret it, so he wouldn't do it.

Of course, no one claims Jehovah is all-rational, or that he would even know reason if it came up and shook his hand.

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You simply don't know what you are talking about and are using reduction ad absurdum arguments that are beneath you.

I've never felt the need to read the whole Bible. After all, I'm already an atheist. but I've read enough of it to know that's one mean, cruel, psychotic, neurotic, narcissistic, cowardly deity. Pretty much the Donald Trump of bronze age deities.

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Again this is just silly. When Christians have done this it has been rejected and denounced. God most certainly is never proud of anyone who kills or tortures innocent people.

So when Jehovah's/Jesus's vicars ordered and cheered on people to Crusade repeatedly against the infidel in the "holy" land, assuring "salvation" to any who went, even after atrocities have been committed in the name of "god," that was rejected and denounced?

By whom?

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Do I even need to remind you that atheism has been the cause of more bloodshed than all "religious" wars combined?

Atheism hasn't caused any deaths. Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the cast of morons who unleashed WWI did not do so in order to impose atheism over anyone. Hitler in fact had quite the backing of German Christians, inside and outside Germany proper. Stalin made friends with his local Patriarch, too, for the duration of WWII. The fact that these weren't specifically Christian movements does not make them "atheist."

You simply don't know what you're talking about.

Quote: FrGamble

Oh my, we have gone down this road already many times and I have provided many forms of evidence that you either ignore or dismiss.

If I accepted any of your evidence as valid, I'd have to accept claims for other ridiculous nonsense like reincarnation, conspiracy theories, astrology, etc.

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Maybe it would be your turn to provide any evidence as to your extraordinary claim that there is no God? Of course you cannot do this because there is none.

I don't have to, any more than I have to prove astrology false when there is no evidence it is valid. If I had to prove every nonsensical claim, from homeopathy to religion, false somehow, I'd give up and believe them instead. it would be easier.

But I will, once you show me your evidence to prove Ra, Ist, Ueser, Odin, Loki, Tlaloc, Huixlipoxtli and Baal do not exist and have never existed. and I want iron-clad evidence.

Or just get me a photo of Jehovah. I'd take that as evidence. Surely an all-powerful being should have no trouble posting a selfie on Facebook.

Quote: Nareed

Atheism hasn't caused any deaths. Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the cast of morons who unleashed WWI did not do so in order to impose atheism over anyone. Hitler in fact had quite the backing of German Christians, inside and outside Germany proper. Stalin made friends with his local Patriarch, too, for the duration of WWII. The fact that these weren't specifically Christian movements does not make them "atheist."

You simply don't know what you're talking about.

This is not FrG's idea, it's the Vatican's stance
on atheists, I looked it up. It's patently
ridiculous when you consider Hitler was raised
by a fanatical Catholic mother who sent him
to the strictest Catholic schools. Hitler never
resigned from the Church or was excommunicated.
Hitler's hatred for Jews has been traced to his youth
in the Church, when Jews were repeatedly preached against.
The Church in 1900 was terrified the Jews would
take back the Holy Land and were trying whatever
was needed to stop them.

Quote: Evenbob

Why do Christians have to make themselves
look like loons by saying he's alive and talking to
them. It's makes their case for Jesus very weak.

Jesus Himself claimed to be God and for others to believe in Him. He promised to be with us always. If He wasn't who He said He was then He is not God, nor is He even a good person. The case for Jesus is made weak by those who foolishly just want to make Him into a nice guy or a guru. Jesus Christ is the living and true God incarnate who died for our sins and was raised. He is alive and the most important relationship in my life is with Him.

Quote: Nareed

So why not kill the king and be done?

All-powerful god, remember? make it so every man who sits on the throne of the two lands dies by immediate lightning strike the moment the ass hits the seat, and I guarantee not three people would have died in the whole debacle.

You act as if the king was the only one committing these crimes. You also act as if God did not send 10 warnings all ignored by the king. It is clear that God wanted no one to die in this incident.

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And yet you have said, numerous times, right here, that the world has been getting worse by the day. Since we've seen, and documented, things like WWI, WWII, Vietnam, the Khmer Rouge, the Cultural Revolution, the Crusades, the wars between Protestant and catholic countries, the Inquisition, etc. just what were the ancients in Noah's time doing? Killing off Egyptian babies? Oh, no, wait, that's the wrong Biblical character. My bad.

Exactly one can only imagine the atrocities.

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An all-knowing, all-powerful, all-loving, all-merciful being wouldn't need to repent because he wouldn't have killed everyone off. He'd know ahead of time he'd regret it, so he wouldn't do it.

You have never been a teacher or formatter of men have you?

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I've never felt the need to read the whole Bible. After all, I'm already an atheist. but I've read enough of it to know that's one mean, cruel, psychotic, neurotic, narcissistic, cowardly deity. Pretty much the Donald Trump of bronze age deities.

You've obviously skipped around and chosen certain passages. To read the whole Bible is to experience the amazing love and mercy of God. If you want some suggestions in regard to passages to read I would be happy to provide them for you, however they will be different than your atheist propaganda.

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So when Jehovah's/Jesus's vicars ordered and cheered on people to Crusade repeatedly against the infidel in the "holy" land, assuring "salvation" to any who went, even after atrocities have been committed in the name of "god," that was rejected and denounced?

By whom?

The atrocities of the Crusades were rejected immediately and clearly by the Pope. They were meant to liberate the Holy Land from invaders and protect the Christian people and shrines there. They were indeed failures on just about every level and left a splintered Church in their wake, but none of these atrocities were condoned or encouraged by the Church itself.

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Atheism hasn't caused any deaths. Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the cast of morons who unleashed WWI did not do so in order to impose atheism over anyone. Hitler in fact had quite the backing of German Christians, inside and outside Germany proper. Stalin made friends with his local Patriarch, too, for the duration of WWII. The fact that these weren't specifically Christian movements does not make them "atheist."

You simply don't know what you're talking about.

I believe that it was the personal atheism of Hitler, Stalin, Mao and the cast of morons that enabled them to do the things they did. No God fearing man would ever be able to think or do the things they did.