Science and God

June 1st, 2015 at 5:39:09 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4980
Quote: Nareed
Not so.

Everything within the universe has a beginning, or a cause, and was formed or came into being. the Sun, for instance, was formed out of a cloud of hydrogen, plus dust and other gasses. We've seen similar stellar formation processes elsewhere and at various stages. We have NOT seen any evidence at all of a sentient being directing, manipulating or otherwise influencing how stars form.

The logical conclusion which follows from this is that stars form spontaneously.


That would be the most ridiculous conclusion you could possibly draw?!? The hydrogen, dust, other gasses and a boatload of forces all came from somewhere. They are the cause for the particular star in question. However, if you want to ask a deeper question as to where did that hydrogen gas come from, what was its cause? Then you will inevitable arrive at a first cause or a creator. You were the one who liked Aristotle so much, why are you abandoning him and logic now?
June 1st, 2015 at 5:50:17 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4980
Quote: Evenbob
But you have no idea if the universe
even had a beginning.


Instead of just making stuff up let's look at the evidence shall we?

Quote:
You wouldn't build a car with 1910
technology, why maintain a religion
with outdated logic.


Let's be very clear, I'm not trying to make the Bible into a science textbook, which it is most certainly not. The ideas Christianity puts forth may inspire science because it sees our universe as ordered and created by God and worthy of study, but its main ideas are not about cosmology but anthropology. The logic of the Christian understanding of mankind is proved more true every day. You still after many times claiming to rejecting the notion of sin cannot come up with any reason why it is so difficult for man to do what we know is right? The logic of Christianity has always been light years ahead of the secular or atheistic notion of mankind.
June 1st, 2015 at 5:53:43 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 106
Posts: 10725
Quote: FrGamble
Then you will inevitable arrive at a first cause or a creator.


Only if you WANT to arrive there. Hawking:

"Before we understood science, it was natural to believe that God created the universe. But now science offers a more convincing explanation."

Do we really need to get into the
'more convincing explanation'
again? Every time I post it, you
never have a comment.

Hint: It concerns gravity
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
June 1st, 2015 at 5:59:45 PM permalink
Nareed
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 312
Posts: 10550
Quote: FrGamble
That would be the most ridiculous conclusion you could possibly draw?!?


Since you ask, the most ridiculous conclusion would be that Jehovah/Jesus did it.

Quote:
The hydrogen, dust, other gasses and a boatload of forces all came from somewhere.


Sure. we can follow the evolution and formation of stars backwards to the moment right after the Big Bang. And in all those observations we still see no evidence of a sentient being involved at all.

Quote:
You were the one who liked Aristotle so much, why are you abandoning him and logic now?


The existence of beings can be proved by evidence
There is no evidence for A's existence
Therefore the existence of A cannot be proven.

I think Aristotle would approve.
If Trump where half as smart as he thinks he is, he'd be twice as smart as he really is.
June 1st, 2015 at 6:13:28 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 106
Posts: 10725
Quote: Nareed
Since you ask, the most ridiculous conclusion would be that Jehovah/Jesus did it.
.


As a fable, a myth, a part of a religion,
I completely understand that god/Jesus
did it. As a fact of science, it's preposterous.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
June 1st, 2015 at 6:24:29 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4980
Quote: Evenbob
Only if you WANT to arrive there.


Actually, you can only avoid a creator if you WANT to avoid it.
June 1st, 2015 at 6:26:53 PM permalink
FrGamble
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 44
Posts: 4980
Quote: Nareed

The existence of beings can be proved by evidence
There is no evidence for A's existence
Therefore the existence of A cannot be proven.

I think Aristotle would approve.


Maybe if A = Atheism.

If A = God then your second premise is incorrect.

[edit: actually your third premise is also incorrect because you can know of the existence of A without it being scientifically proven.]
June 1st, 2015 at 8:14:07 PM permalink
Mosca
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 16
Posts: 387
Quote: FrGamble
Maybe if A = Atheism.

If A = God then your second premise is incorrect.

[edit: actually your third premise is also incorrect because you can know of the existence of A without it being scientifically proven.]


This makes no sense at all.
June 1st, 2015 at 9:05:43 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 106
Posts: 10725
Quote: FrGamble
Actually, you can only avoid a creator if you WANT to avoid it.


So all the really smart, gifted atheists,
like Einstein, Hawking, Asimov, Franklin,
Twain, Sagan, Jefferson, Freud, and
really, on and on and on, all these
exceptionally smart people really
believed in god, but wanted to avoid
it, so they called themselves atheists
instead. This is the story you now want
to go with?

In debate we have a name for this ploy.
It's called desperation. It's when you've
so run out of facts and evidence, you
delve into the realm of losing your
credibility by making things up as you
go along.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.
June 1st, 2015 at 9:14:15 PM permalink
Evenbob
Member since: Oct 24, 2012
Threads: 106
Posts: 10725
Quote: FrGamble
cannot come up with any reason why it is so difficult for man to do what we know is right? T.


Difficult for WHO? You keep saying that. I
didn't rob or murder anybody today. I
didn't cheat on my wife, or kick a baby
or swear at an old lady. It wasn't difficult
at all not to do these things. In fact, it's
not difficult for most people. You want
to indict the whole human race because
a few people can't play by the rules?

Go bother them about 'sin', the rest of
us think it's ridiculous.
If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose.