Catholic Church Collapsing

Quote: FrGamble

You think that they really just believed anything and everything because they were helpless fools

I couldn't have said it better. Superstition
ran people lives.

"In the pre-scientific Middle Ages, the world was at the same time both fascinating and frightening. In the absence of proper knowledge, people had no choice but to fall back on their own imaginations to make sense of the myriad natural phenomena around them. The result was a world of superstition where everything seemed magical, a place teeming with angels and demons, fairies and goblins, elves, gnomes, and witches."

Quote: FrGamble

So a vast majority of scientists have not said that the Big Bang and an expanding universe points to a beginning to our universe?!?

I don't remember any of them saying it
points to god creating anything.

"It is beyond the realm of the Big Bang Model to say what gave rise to the Big Bang. There are a number of speculative theories about this topic, but none of them make realistically testable predictions as of yet."

"The Big Bang Model does not attempt to describe that region of space significantly beyond our horizon - space-time could well be quite different out there."

In other words, we can only see as far as
the Big Bang lets us see, we have no idea
what's beyond that. Other Big Bangs?

Quote: Evenbob

"In the pre-scientific Middle Ages, the world was at the same time both fascinating and frightening. In the absence of proper knowledge, people had no choice but to fall back on their own imaginations to make sense of the myriad natural phenomena around them. The result was a world of superstition where everything seemed magical, a place teeming with angels and demons, fairies and goblins, elves, gnomes, and witches."

Run do not walk to the nearest museum.

Quote:

I don't remember any of them saying it
points to god creating anything.

Of course not, this is science we are talking about here. Science could never pronounce on what existed before the creation of the universe, but they can speak about a beginning of the universe.

Quote: FrGamble

Run do not walk to the nearest museum.

Why, are there phony Catholic relics on display?
Some of those manufactured relics, like the Shroud
with it's giant 6' Jesus, are worth a lot of money.

Quote: Wizard

Oy! Where did I say anything contrary to that?

Suppose you're serving on a jury on a murder trial. the prosecution argues Joe is guilty, but offers no evidence beyond their conviction that he is guilty. You're told the murder took place between 2 and 4 am on a Tuesday. Joe has no alibi. That's all you're told.

How would you vote? Can you prove Joe didn't do it?

Quote: Nareed

How would you vote?

Not guilty

Quote:

Can you prove Joe didn't do it?

No

Quote: Wizard

Not guilty

Not quite sure what you are talking about or referring to here?

Remember that we are not talking about a court of law or a scientific experiment when it comes to belief and faith. Think how many times a day you trust your gut and take small bits of evidence and your experiences to make decisions and act. You do not subject the person who introduces themselves to you as Mr. Smith to a full background check or DNA test. Faith is lived, active, and alive. It is motivated by love and trust. This is why we as human beings don't walk around with test tubes and microscopes on our heads. We live by faith and are thankful we do every day. Belief in God is like the belief that our spouse loves us. There is ample evidence that grows and grows over time to reach absolute certainty. Not by taking her to court or subjecting her to a daily lie detector test.

Quote: Evenbob

Why, are there phony Catholic relics on display?
Some of those manufactured relics, like the Shroud
with it's giant 6' Jesus, are worth a lot of money.

You mean the large photographic negative of a roughly 5'8" man that even by faulty radiocarbon testing was many, many years before photography was invented. You mean the shroud that no scientific explanation exists as to how the image is on the fabric? That actually is not in a museum. However, what is in good museums are the amazing scientific discoveries, art work, and history of our forefathers and mothers that considering there was no electricity or computers back then is almost impossible for us to comprehend how they were able to know what they knew and build what they built. I'm just saying you should have a little more respect for the shoulders on which you stand today.

Quote: Wizard

Not guilty

But you don't know he's not guilty. What if he is? You don't know he's not guilty, either. How can you take a position?

Quote: Nareed

But you don't know he's not guilty. What if he is? You don't know he's not guilty, either. How can you take a position?

Not guilty does not mean the same thing as innocent. It means not enough evidence has been presented to pronounce guilt.

For example, OJ was declared not guilty in his criminal case but lost the wrongful death case. It doesn't mean the two juries disagreed but there was a different standard of evidence. For the criminal case the standard was "guilt beyond a reasonable doubt." For the criminal case it was greater than a 50% chance he did it.

Quote: FrGamble

Remember that we are not talking about a court of law or a scientific experiment when it comes to belief and faith.

I have a hard time with that. Think of me as Mr. Spock.

Live long and prosper.