Hey FrGamble!

I'm really glad you decided to edit your previous comments about Dalex. They made you sound like you were just going to close your ears and eyes and go home once you were confronted with some serious objections to the idea of reincarnation. The funny thing is that he was not even saying you were wrong, just that evidence does not lead directly to reincarnation. I think the UVA article you linked to said it best when it mentioned the research was like catching things in a net. The net has holes in it that will never capture some important things. There is some strange phenomenon but reincarnation is only one of the possible answers. The article itself talks more about a consciousness that is more real than the material world that exists after death. I was struck by how many of these cases involve people who died tragically, suddenly, or young. It also states that once the child meets the family of the deceased the visions or thoughts drift away quickly. This seems to point to the mercy of God who can bring healing and a sense of peace to families who have lost loved ones. I also wonder if reincarnation was a universal phenomenon why are there so few cases? Anyway, this thread is not about reincarnation but it is very much about you realizing that science has its limits and faith takes it from there. If you come to grips with this I think you will see how easy it is to go from what we know about the physical world to a belief in God.

Quote: FrGamble

Anyway, this thread is not about reincarnation but it is very much about you realizing that science has its limits and faith takes it from there.

Hey! Finally something we can agree on! =)

I just happen to believe science isn't done yet, because it isn't. And I think that's what everything boils down to where my beliefs are concerned. I see thousands of different religions, all who have a body of work that says "This is it!". And I've watched or can look back and see that science is the only one who has a body of work and says "This is it, and we're still going". And it does. It continues to grow, and as it does, it slowly swallows up religion. A bit of Ra here, some of Odin there. It's the only one which grows, whereas religion can only stay the same (until it, too, gets swallowed up).

Science has its limits. I have faith that they will expand.

Quote: FrGamble

very much about you realizing that science has its limits and faith takes it from there. If you come to grips with this I think you will see how easy it is to go from what we know about the physical world to a belief in God.

What?? You have it completely backwards. Science
has no limits, obviously. One discovery leads to
another leads to another, on and on forever. Religion
is a finished product. It grows or changes only with
kicking and screaming. People want solidarity from
their religion, this is what god said 3000 years ago and
he still says the same thing today.

Like Face just said, the more science expands, the
more it swallows up religion. It's always been that
way, what do you think happened to all the now
dead religions. They all have expiration dates
because they're nonsense to start with. Science
will always be vibrant and new, because it's about
reality and not myth.

As far as kids forgetting memories, that's the whole
point of the research. Why do you think in every
country on the planet kids start formal schooling
at 5 years old. A childs brain changes at about 4,
they in essence stop being babies and turn into
matured kids. Most people have very few memories
of life before the age of 5. That's why the researchers
have to get to them fast, before the kids brains
mature.

Quote: Face

Hey! Finally something we can agree on! =)

I just happen to believe science isn't done yet, because it isn't. And I think that's what everything boils down to where my beliefs are concerned. I see thousands of different religions, all who have a body of work that says "This is it!". And I've watched or can look back and see that science is the only one who has a body of work and says "This is it, and we're still going". And it does. It continues to grow, and as it does, it slowly swallows up religion. A bit of Ra here, some of Odin there. It's the only one which grows, whereas religion can only stay the same (until it, too, gets swallowed up).

Science has its limits. I have faith that they will expand.

I think it would be an awful thing if science stopped expanding. Its nature is to grow and continue to understand more and more about this amazing and awesome world/universe we live in. But as you said it has limits and those limits are the material world. What does it mean that we live in the universe we do? Why are we here? Is there a loving, intelligent God? These are the questions science cannot answer.

The swallowing up of religion you speak of is the purifying aspect that science plays in the religious landscape. If your religion is based on ancient albino native Americans and gold tablets that no one ever saw science will and should eat you up. However if the "this is it!" of religion is true than it has nothing to fear of the power of science. In fact as science develops and learns more about the truth of our world it will only reinforce certain aspects of a religion that is based in truth and help purify other things proven to be false. Religion indeed can only stay the same, it is a sitting target. It should be easy to knock down if it is not true. Yet here we are standing, standing strong for 2,000 years and here we will be standing until the Lord comes again.

Quote: FrGamble

Yet here we are standing, standing strong for 2,000 years and here we will be standing until the Lord comes again.

But you're not standing strong! The Church is
but a shadow of what it once was. Catholic
schools and churches are closing at a record pace,
and they're selling the buildings and land
to keep the rest of them going.

There is a tremendous priest shortage,
seminaries turn out exactly half as many
priests as they did just 40 years ago,
and the demand for them is twice what it
was then. The nun situation is even worse.

I've covered all this before, the Church is
in deep deep trouble. Some of the dioceses
are millions and millions in debt from money
they borrowed using Church property as
collateral. I could go on and on, the Church
isn't 'standing strong', it's in crisis mode, it's
fighting for it's life.

If the Church was the buildings you might have a point, but it is the people. The same people that flooded the streets of Philadelphia a few days ago to see the Pope, who had recently spoke to congress for the first time ever. Your 'crisis mode' made me laugh a little. There is no doubt a growing anti-Catholic prejudice growing, but really right now things are not close to what the Church has gone through and overcome. In the past.

It's not anti Catholic prejudice, there are
more Catholics now than ever. There is
a lack of people willing to go into the
priest and nun business and tie themselves
to the sinking ship that's the Church.

The Church is strapped for money because
most Catholics never go to mass anymore.
And the ones that do go have little money
to put in the offering plate. 90% never go
to confession. 80% use birth control in
every shape or form. They're Catholics in
name only, which means they are just
an anchor hanging around the Church's
neck, weighing it down.

73% of all statistics are made up and you are wrong 98% of the time.

Quote: FrGamble

73% of all statistics are made up and you are wrong 98% of the time.

Hey, I already posted the links to the articles
this info came from and you had no comment
then. You want me to find them again?

The priest and nun shortage is no joke.
There is a worldwide shortage, there
are more nuns over 90 than there are
nuns under 60. I posted an article in
the NY Times when the pope was here,
that 37 Catholic schools and churches
closed in NYC just this year. Not enough
attendance to keep them open, even
though the number of Catholics in NYC
is at record levels. They just are not
practicing Catholics, and they rarely if
ever got to mass. Everywhere you look
you see the word 'crisis' attached to
the Catholic Church.

https://www.futurechurch.org/future-of-priestly-ministry/optional-celibacy/priest-shortage-at-glance

I never once heard the word 'crisis' used in the coverage of Pope Francis' visit to the US. It was more of a celebration. The priest and nun shortage is real and is no joke as you say. However, this is in the United States. The seminaries are full in Africa, Latin America, and parts of Asia.