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Hey FrGamble!
| April 27th, 2020 at 6:07:30 AM permalink | |
| Fleastiff Member since: Oct 27, 2012 Threads: 62 Posts: 7831 | Obvious to EACH side but simply ignored by the side who want to ignore the obvious and claim "faith", |
| April 27th, 2020 at 6:22:48 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I think the incongruities are ignored by those who don't want to look deeper or try to understand them. They are certainly not ignored by those with faith. Again, have you ever read a Scripture commentary? I'm reading an over 1,000 page commentary just on the Letter to the Romans. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 27th, 2020 at 8:37:11 AM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4260 |
The difference is. You should not need context for a book that claims to contain the ultimate truth. And, I read the bible as a Christian, so I read it with a desire to learn. When I was young (young teens) I was very into history and mythology (well I still am), and after reading the bible, I saw it was no different than many other mythologies. That is when it started to dawn on me how crazy it is. It probably did not help that I was in a church that was very anti-science, and very traditional (as far as male and female roles). But, a younger cousin (female) just last fall got married in the same church, and I was cringing at the way it the pastor (same from when I was young) was describing the roles of marriage (most of my family is religious, and even the highly religious people thought it was a little overboard). But, if a book is supposed to be the ultimate truth, it should not need context. I can read almost any science textbook and if I take my time eventually understand what it is saying. The Bible is a book of stories, there is no concrete method to understand it, other than "all stories and guidance in it must be accepted without question"..... |
| April 27th, 2020 at 9:50:54 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25013 |
I'm the one backsliding? First you say Jesus was fully aware of his divinity and he had full confidence in god and gods plan. He knew the plan for himself, that he would rise from the dead. Then you take it back and say he was totally ignorant when he went to the cross. Which is it, he was fully aware and had tons of faith. Or he was no better than the two other people who died alongside him. totally ignorant. You constantly want it both ways. Like I said, Xtians hate hate hate this subject. They cannot describe the big sacrifice god/Jesus made and resent it when you ask about it. The sacrifice is supposed to be a mystery that can't be explained. As a believer you're supposed to just accept that and shut up about it. Outsiders need a little more than a wink and promise it's all true and not the biggest scam in history. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 27th, 2020 at 9:59:30 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
Yeah, I can see that as being a problem and an obstacle to understanding.
I disagree with the premise that a book containing big truths shouldn't need context. Especially a book written in a different language, different culture, and different time. You can read a science textbook but without a teacher and someone to help you there will be lots of things you get wrong, are frustrated by, or don't understand. If you tried to read even something like Shakespeare without help I think you would miss a lot and maybe not like it too much. The Bible is a collection of many books. Some are stories other are letters other as songs others are instructions others are poetry others are apocolyptic writings (a genre all to itself). There are concrete methods to understanding it and the literal method of just accepting without question is not a good one. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 27th, 2020 at 10:01:50 AM permalink | |
| FrGamble Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 67 Posts: 7596 |
I have never said Christ was totally ignorant or even suggested or alluded to it. I challenge you to show me how you have come to that statement. “It is with the smallest brushes that the artist paints the most exquisitely beautiful pictures.” ( |
| April 27th, 2020 at 10:02:07 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25013 |
No doubt. Xtians have made an art form out of adding unneeded dialog to the NT to make it seem like it's a scholastic intellectual masterpiece. This impresses the crap out of the rabble in the pews and makes it seem like the clergy has a grasp on the religion that's iron clad. The rabble is in good hands. The truth is, they make it up as they go along. They can write a 10,000 word essay on one passage in the NT. And then ooh and ahh over it and congratulate themselves on how smart they are. It's all about selling the product. The more they can wrap it in smoke mirrors and mystery, the more people they can keep bamboozled. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 27th, 2020 at 10:05:20 AM permalink | |
| aceofspades Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 83 Posts: 2019 |
Padre -- but what makes one person's understanding of text such that their interpretation is the correct one to teach others? It's a regression again |
| April 27th, 2020 at 10:09:29 AM permalink | |
| Evenbob Member since: Oct 24, 2012 Threads: 146 Posts: 25013 |
OK. He knew the plan for him and had total faith in it or he didn't. Which is it. He didn't have to be all knowing or all seeing, he only needed the outline of the plan. Die on the cross and rise 3 days later. And why do they always say 3 days? On my calendar Fri to Sun is 2 days. If he did know the plan, there was no sacrifice. If he had no idea of the plan, he was not aware of his divinity. Pick one. If you take a risk, you may lose. If you never take a risk, you will always lose. |
| April 27th, 2020 at 10:19:15 AM permalink | |
| Gandler Member since: Aug 15, 2019 Threads: 27 Posts: 4260 |
Yes, but surely you know that many churches and organizations say and preach exactly that. It is the perfect word of god and needs to be taken literally. You can even make the argument that the bible itself says that it must be taken literally. Here is a well known and powerful Christian Organization in America: https://answersingenesis.org/bible-questions/why-do-you-take-the-bible-literally/ |