Refugees in Germany -- Crisis or Much Needed Labor?

Quote: Evenbob

Wow, the press is keeping that a secret.
All we see here is stories that say the
opposite. I just Googled 'German's
support refugees' and got mostly
stories that said there is a huge
amount of unrest over the 'crisis'.
That it's moving Germany as a
country to the far right politically.

I'm glad you cleared it up and Germany
loves being invaded by thousands
of Muslim men, cause we sure as
hell don't want them here.

You might want to look at these polls:

http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2015/oct/30/european-attitudes-towards-refugees-poll-eu

But you are right, the press is too focused on the small group of extremists and neo-nazis. Their party, the AFD, is polling at 7%. That is an increase, so Germany is somewhat moving to the right, but in the face of 1 million refugees this year I am pretty happy how Germans are keeping their shit together.

Why would you say "invaded" and single out the "muslim men"? Of course, I know the answer already and it makes me wonder why I even respond to you. Sometimes, just sometimes, Evenbob, please realize that the luck you enjoy being born a white male in the US was not of your own making and try to be gracious toward those less fortunate.

Quote: Canyonero

Why would you say "invaded" and single out the "muslim men"? .

Because they're the trouble makers. They
don't assimilate, they remain separate
from the country they live in. We have the
largest group of Muslims in the world
outside of the Middle East, here in MI.
Nobody likes them, they make no
effort to get along. They're arrogant,
snobbish, and macho acting.

I had to deal with them all the time in
the 90's at the gun shows in Detroit.
75% of the dealers were Muslim men
and they were unfriendly pricks, for
the most part. They act like they're doing
you a favor for being there selling their
stuff. They're clannish in the extreme,
most of them speak good English, yet
always speak to each other in their native
tongue. I really came to hate them, after
bending over backwards to be a decent customer.

So Germany can have them if they love
them so much. I read a story of a girl in
a German village that volunteers in a
refugee camp. She says she gets called
a 'Christian whore' dozens of times a
day, gets grabbed constantly, and has
even been spit on. Knowing these people
like I do, I have no doubt at all she isn't
lying. Enjoy them, Paris is loving the heck
out of the Muslims they let in.

Quote: Canyonero

Why would you say "invaded" and single out the "muslim men"? Of course, I know the answer already and it makes me wonder why I even respond to you. Sometimes, just sometimes, Evenbob, please realize that the luck you enjoy being born a white male in the US was not of your own making and try to be gracious toward those less fortunate.

He is saying it because that is exactly what is happening, one culture moving in to overwhelm another. Such large-scale "invasions" rarely end well. Muslims when they enter a country typically become an isolated sub-culture, which often causes violence with others.

Welcome to the forum, BTW. How long have you been lurking here? I always wonder how many people have been reading our stuff.

Quote: AZDuffman

He is saying it because that is exactly what is happening, one culture moving in to overwhelm another. Such large-scale "invasions" rarely end well. Muslims when they enter a country typically become an isolated sub-culture, which often causes violence with others.

That's what they are in MI, a sub culture.
Even the ones that were born here say
they would like sharia law to be imposed,
and are praying for that day. Screw that..

Quote: Evenbob

Because they're the trouble makers. They
don't assimilate, they remain separate
from the country they live in. We have the
largest group of Muslims in the world
outside of the Middle East, here in MI.
Nobody likes them, they make no
effort to get along. They're arrogant,
snobbish, and macho acting.

I had to deal with them all the time in
the 90's at the gun shows in Detroit.
75% of the dealers were Muslim men
and they were unfriendly pricks, for
the most part. They act like they're doing
you a favor for being there selling their
stuff. They're clannish in the extreme,
most of them speak good English, yet
always speak to each other in their native
tongue. I really came to hate them, after
bending over backwards to be a decent customer.

So Germany can have them if they love
them so much. I read a story of a girl in
a German village that volunteers in a
refugee camp. She says she gets called
a 'Christian whore' dozens of times a
day, gets grabbed constantly, and has
even been spit on. Knowing these people
like I do, I have no doubt at all she isn't
lying. Enjoy them, Paris is loving the heck
out of the Muslims they let in.

Sorry forum, that post was kinda my fault, I provoked it. I will stop posting now.

Quote: Canyonero

Sorry forum, that post was kinda my fault, I provoked it. I will stop posting now.

You provoked what? You asked me why I
singled out Muslim men and I told you.
Also, 80% of the refugees are men between
18 and 25, that's another reason I singled
them out.

This thread is a split off from my Germany thread.

I won't presume to know much about how Germans feel about the refugees. My cousin's wife who graciously showed me around talked a fair bit about it. She mentioned that Germany has a very low fertility rate of about 1.5, which left alone would cause a dangerous decrease in the population, not to a very high ratio of aged people to younger adults in the work force. So, Germany needs a steady supply of immigration just to have enough workers. She mentioned the unemployment rate at 1.5% or so, but I have a hard time believing it is that low. While never getting into any specific groups, she was definitely for some immigration.

Regarding Muslims:

I think that for the most part, we should observe the niceties and not try to make generalizations or at least definitely never apply such generalizations to individuals we are dealing with. It is a noted fallacy to claim a universal quality to something in the face of a single exception [which logically means universal application is falsified].

HOWEVER, there is also the matter of self-preservation and also the matter of groups that have lost their prerogative of being afforded "the benefit of the doubt". To avoid the Godwin's Law complaint, I will avoid recent history and go back to the Vikings raiding England. What kind of stupid idiot would listen to a coastal inhabitant of that time making derogatory remarks about the nature of those Norsemen and pipe up objecting about how those complaining "just weren't being fair" about it!

I always have encouraged exception in the case of personal safety. Do not chide yourself for bigotry when your instincts tell you a situation is not safe; take action to make yourself safe, by avoidance or otherwise, racism be damned.

I just do not see the situation with Moslems being much different. Countries who are letting them in, including the US, are doing something very foolish. I think keeping them out should be our policy and remain so.

The standing challenge is to point out a single area in the world where Muslims and non-Muslims both live and where those Muslims live in peace with their neighbors. Conflict in such situations is a universal condition which maintains without exception? someone can kindly point one out?

Quote: odiousgambit

Regarding Muslims:

I think that for the most part, we should observe the niceties and not try to make generalizations or at least definitely never apply such generalizations to individuals we are dealing with. It is a noted fallacy to claim a universal quality to something in the face of a single exception [which logically means universal application is falsified].

I just do not see the situation with Moslems being much different. Countries who are letting them in, including the US, are doing something very foolish. I think keeping them out should be our policy and remain so.

The standing challenge is to point out a single area in the world where Muslims and non-Muslims both live and where those Muslims live in peace with their neighbors. Conflict in such situations is a universal condition which maintains without exception? someone can kindly point one out?

The problem as i see it is we are at a point where PC has made life downright dangerous. You cannot ever make a genera statement without someone demanding that there are "exceptions." You make a general statement and someone says, "well, that isn't ALL muslims........"

There is a loud segment of the population that for some reason feels the need to defend muslims to the end. Same people hate Christians and Israel, but muslims must be defended. The weird part is that when you point out that muslims do things they would find repulsive (e.g.: treatment of women and gays) the same people just defend them all the harder. The "it isn't ALL musllims......" thing comes out again.

They treat it as a math problem where once false = always false instead of daring to make a general statement.

I got to know some young Muslim guys
from Bosnia and they were fine. But they
were non practicing Muslims, they never
went to services knew little about the
religion.