Two Gods or One

Quote: FrGamble

True, in fact Evenbob is often the one to give us the answer. Us poor believers just believe what we are told, humanity is very gullible he is often telling me. Why he doesn't turn that thought and apply it to this question as to why there are so many religions is puzzling. .

I have turned it to that question many times,
you just don't remember. You still haven't
explained why the popes say it's one god
for both religions, and the Protestants
say it's two separate gods. It's almost like
no god is talking to either side, it's just
all politics as usual. To an atheist, it's just
religious people mumbling to themselves.

Quote: FrGamble

Christianity claims to be its fulfillment in fact, the awaited Messiah who fulfills the prophecies of old has come in the person of Jesus of Nazareth, the Christ, Messiah, or Anointed One.

So what was wrong with the first messiah Jehovah "sent" to Judea?

Quote:

We know the Bible is true because the prophecies in it were fulfilled. We know the prophecies in the Bible were fulfilled because it says that they were.

From http://www.thethinkingatheist.com/forum/Thread-Bible-Prophecies

We also know the timeline - prophesies, jesus, stories of what jesus did, revised stories about what jesus did which now show him fulfilling prophesies.

Father, you say that the first non-Roman Catholic churches didn't exist until the 16th century. That ignores the Orthodox church (great schism in 1054, but not part of the Latin church structure ever), the Oriental Orthodox church (a separate group and rejected the early ecumenical councils in the 500 CE area too). Plus many other smaller churches that were began from the early Christian movement and who've never been part of the Church of Rome.

The Pope has never had full doctrine power over the Christian church as a complete body. It's not just a Protestant rejection of the church by Martin Luther. There is no one church, and one doctrine, but hundreds of flavours.

Quote: TheCesspit

The Pope has never had full doctrine power over the Christian church as a complete body. It's not just a Protestant rejection of the church by Martin Luther. There is no one church, and one doctrine, but hundreds of flavours.

You know, it would seem that to the universalist Catholic church, all that actually counts is Western Europe and its dominions.

After all, most of the Arian, Monophysite, and Orthodox splinters were practiced in Asia minor, the Middle East, Africa and Eastern Europe.

Quote: TheCesspit

Father, you say that the first non-Roman Catholic churches didn't exist until the 16th century. That ignores the Orthodox church (great schism in 1054, but not part of the Latin church structure ever), the Oriental Orthodox church (a separate group and rejected the early ecumenical councils in the 500 CE area too). Plus many other smaller churches that were began from the early Christian movement and who've never been part of the Church of Rome.

That is a great point about the Orthodox and you are correct. Since we can share the Sacraments with them and our differences with the Orthodox are not as doctrinally based I sometimes forget the great schism that sadly still exists. My bad. I don't think you are correct abut he Oriental Orthodox church or these other smaller Churches that you mentioned.

Quote:

The Pope has never had full doctrine power over the Christian church as a complete body. It's not just a Protestant rejection of the church by Martin Luther. There is no one church, and one doctrine, but hundreds of flavours.

This is not correct. The Pope until the great schism did lead the entire Christian Church, which was one. Even today there is still one doctrine or one creed that unites all Christians. This Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed is interpreted differently, but in every mainline denomination these creeds are recited.

Quote: FrGamble

This is not correct. The Pope until the great schism did lead the entire Christian Church, which was one. Even today there is still one doctrine or one creed that unites all Christians. This Nicene Creed and the Apostles Creed is interpreted differently, but in every mainline denomination these creeds are recited.

I don't think that many in the Orthodox Church would agree that the Bishop of Rome was a the primary leader in the early church. The Bishop of Rome may have thought he had primacy in all matters Christian.

The Oriental Orthodox refused to accept some of the findings of the ecumenical councils. I think it would be hard to claim that before that point they were part of the Roman Catholic church, and the Bishop of Rome. That's really back filling in a history to see a thread backwards, but at the time, the many different churches were all going along their own ways, with what the believed was a common creed, but over time they found differences, such as the true nature of the divinity of Christ and all that other theological jazz.

Just because the largest faction was the Chalcedonians, doesn't mean that everyone else was the part of them at the time of the schism. The schisms -created- the difference factions by it's occurrence.

Quote: FrGamble

The Pope until the great schism did lead the entire Christian Church, which was one.

I suppose the legacy of the persecution of Christians by other Christians since Constantine's time, is this bizarre belief that doctrinal differences about on, two or three imaginary beings never happened, and there were never important enough to engage in persecutions.

So let me summarize:

Oppression is Love
Persecution is Inclusion
Many is One

Quote: TheCesspit

Father, you say .

Why do you call him 'father', is he your
dad? I only have one set of fathers,
all are related to me. Calling a religious
person 'father' is an obvious attempt
by the Church to usurp the power in
the name. The paternal instinct is a strong
one, we're taught from the earliest age
to respect and obey our real fathers. A
priest is not a father, he's a priest. It's
not right to steal a real father's respect
and employ it as your own.

Yeah, "call no man father" is a bit of a head-scratcher.

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/call-no-man-father