Trump vs Hillary 2016

Quote: reno

With so much material to work with, it boggles my mind that Rubio, Kasich, Jeb!, Christie, Walker, Cruz, Fiorina, Carson, etc. never aired a similar ad.

The simple explanation fails to satisfy: they all expected him to implode, the way all these popular outsiders eventually do.

That might have been true at first, but Cruz, if no one else, ought to have panicked a third of the way into the primaries.

Quote:

Using these offensive quotes is obvious, easy, low-hanging fruit for a political campaign. The GOP primary candidates inexplicably passed on a once-in-a-lifetime political gift: an opponent with a vulgar vocabulary who appeared on The Howard Stern Show 25 times!

Keep in mind who the target is during the primaries. trump was pretty much openly stating worse things, and he kept on gaining votes. The rest fo the GOP field did not attack him from that direction, because they were playing to the same base.

What really puzzles me is why so few Democrats ran to begin with. I've no idea who could have run successfully, but I'll tell you this: back in 2007, I wouldn't have thought of Obama as a viable candidate.

Quote: Nareed

Keep in mind who the target is during the primaries. trump was pretty much openly stating worse things, and he kept on gaining votes. The rest fo the GOP field did not attack him from that direction, because they were playing to the same base.

The GOP primary voters aren't easily offended by racist rhetoric, so it's not surprising that Trump's racism didn't hurt his popularity with the base. What is surprising is that the GOP primary voters didn't mind Trump's criticism of McCain's capture in Vietnam. What is surprising is that so many Christian evangelicals weren't offended by Trump's unapologetic lack of faith, his crass sexual innuendo, and his mocking of the disabled man afflicted with arthrogryposis.

Quote: Nareed

What really puzzles me is why so few Democrats ran to begin with.

In 1996, Bob Dole didn't have much competition in the GOP primaries. Everyone just sort of accepted that Dole was next in line, it was his turn. There's probably some of that going on with the Democrats in 2016.

Also, it was an open secret that under Debbie Wasserman Schultz' leadership, the DNC was in cahoots with the Clintons, and the party went out of their way to sabotage Bernie. Bill & Hillary are extremely powerful, extremely ruthless, and they have lots of loyal friends. Do not cross them.

Quote: Nareed

What really puzzles me is why so few Democrats ran to begin with. I've no idea who could have run successfully, but I'll tell you this: back in 2007, I wouldn't have thought of Obama as a viable candidate.

I cribbed some of this from Wikipedia, although I have read a lot about this election

Zedillo was Secretary of Education under Salinas, but he resigned in 1993 to run the electoral campaign of Luis Donaldo Colosio. As Colosio's assassination was a shock, Zedillo became one of the few PRI members eligible under Mexican law to take his place, since he had not occupied public office for some time. The opposition blamed Colosio's murder on Salinas. It was notable that the assassination took place after Colosio visited the members of the Zapatista movement in Chiapas and promised to open dialogue, something the PRI opposed.

The choice of Zedillo was interpreted as Salinas' way of retaining real power behind the scenes, since Zedillo was not really a politician, but an economist (like Salinas), who clearly lacked the president's political talent and influence.

=================

But I get the impression your average Mexican citizen had never heard of Zedillo when he was named the replacement candidate for Colosio. Overcoming PRI inertia was unlikely in 1994, even though Fox was elected 6 years later. I feel like the USA is becoming more like India where entertainers regularly win public offices, partly because they have name recognition.

I get the feeling that potential Democratic candidates didn't run against Hillary, because they were intimidated by the fact that she was known to almost all Americans. Martin O'Malley ran to gain name recognition, and Bernie Saunders never really expected to win.

Of course, by that argument, Obama should not have run in 2008. So I admit my analysis has holes.

Quote: reno

The GOP primary voters aren't easily offended by racist rhetoric, so it's not surprising that Trump's racism didn't hurt his popularity with the base.

That would be quite a serious problem.

But the real problem is that this isn't the problem.

The real problem is the GOP base, and much of the rest of the GOP, are as racist as Trump and quite approve of his rhetoric.

Quote:

What is surprising is that the GOP primary voters didn't mind Trump's criticism of McCain's capture in Vietnam.

I think the GOP doesn't like McCain at all any more, if they ever did. And the put down of a dead soldier's family was ok, because he was attacking Muslims.

Quote:

What is surprising is that so many Christian evangelicals weren't offended by Trump's unapologetic lack of faith, his crass sexual innuendo, and his mocking of the disabled man afflicted with arthrogryposis.

This I'm undecided about. either the religious right has lost influence, or they overlap enough with the bigot wing that it doesn't matter.

Quote: Pacomartin

Of course, by that argument, Obama should not have run in 2008. So I admit my analysis has holes.

I think she was a sacrifice. After all, her negatives are quite striking. Against a candidate with a lower negative rating, say Cruz, Rubio or Kasich, she stood little chance. And coming off a two-term Democratic administration, they may have thought the other party would win anyway.

Bill Clinton should also not have been nominated for 92. That time many Democrats declined to run because Bush the elder was riding high from approval of the Gulf War, plus many Dem senators had voted against the war. By the time Bush's popularity sank due to a recession, it was too late for better candidates to run.

The situation now is that both parties nominated terrible candidates, both of whom could be beaten with relative ease by a marginally better candidate on either side.

And this is what "a pox on both their houses" looks like in real life.

Will watch it in full a bit later but I happened to catch about 45min of he debate on radio when I was driving earlier and surely no one will disagree that Trump was woeful?? Just rambling, off point and rarely answering the question. His response to the birther question was hilarious. Just a bunch of incoherent disjointed sentences.

It had to be one of the worst debate performances in history.

First half Trump, second half Clinton. She
shot her figurative wad tonight, there
are two more to go. Trump stayed away
from her big issues, but he won't next
time. In most of the online polls, Trump
won a by huge amount. Slate, Time, Fortune,
The Hill, CNBC, Politico, New Jersey, San
Diego, on and on, I have yet to see one
where Hillary is even close.

This happened in the primaries, Trump
won every online poll of the debates.
People said big deal, it's not scientific,
it means nothing. Really. Who won the
nomination. The same guy who won all
the online polls.

Check them yourself:

https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/09/26/polls-polls-polls-ok-who-won-the-debate/

Quote: Evenbob

This happened in the primaries, Trump
won every online poll of the debates.
People said big deal, it's not scientific,
it means nothing.
https://theconservativetreehouse.com/2016/09/26/polls-polls-polls-ok-who-won-the-debate/

I just find it interesting that a conservative site links to all polls where you can vote without registering.

No wonder Trump is ahead.

Quote: Evenbob

First half Trump, second half Clinton.

If Trump won the first half then it must have been a real Jekyll & Hyde performance because the 45 min I heard were an absolute embarrassment for him.