Trump vs Hillary 2016

Quote: kenarman

I believe that we probably can solve problems better if we can at least talk about them. In todays PC world we aren't even allowed to voice concerns about many things.

That's true. but also the GOP base won't consider anything until the border is secured. So that comes from both sides. Add the ignorance by most Americans about their immigration laws, and you can begin to see the problem.


What I don't understand, is why no one, on either side of the aisle, seems interested in any kind of constructive solution. Bush the younger had a GOP majority in Congress for a while and he didn't try. Obama had a Democratic majority and he didn't lift a finger until after he lost that majority.

Why?

I've no doubt Clinton will do exactly nothing about it. Trump, I'm afraid, would; but he has the wrong idea.

Quote: Nareed

That's true. but also the GOP base won't consider anything until the border is secured. So that comes from both sides. Add the ignorance by most Americans about their immigration laws, and you can begin to see the problem.


What I don't understand, is why no one, on either side of the aisle, seems interested in any kind of constructive solution. Bush the younger had a GOP majority in Congress for a while and he didn't try. Obama had a Democratic majority and he didn't lift a finger until after he lost that majority.

Why?

I've no doubt Clinton will do exactly nothing about it. Trump, I'm afraid, would; but he has the wrong idea.

The difficult problems don't have easy solutions. If you actually try to make everyone happy there are no solutions. The safest thing for any politician is always the status quo, that is the route to re-election.

Quote: kenarman

I don't believe that half of the bombast thrown out by Trump would ever be implemented. Some I don't think he actually wants to do and some would never get past the supreme court. Since when do all campaign promises get acted on by any party, reality starts getting in the way.

But Trump has made this wall and having Mexico pay for it front and center in his campaign. While closing Gitmo was one of Obama's campaign promises, it didn't exactly define him as a candidate.

The illegal immigration from Mexico has a long history.

Every year during the 1920s, some 62,000 workers entered the United States legally, and over 100,000 illegally. Pressure from Mexican agribusiness owners to return laborers from the United States to Mexico prompted increased action by the Mexican government. The labor problems grew so bad that crops would rot in Mexican fields because so many laborers had crossed into the U.S.

Mexico over a hundred years ago pleaded with the USA to stop illegal immigration as the loss of labor was seen as damaging to Mexico. Even today, in Southern Mexico the corn crop is difficult to harvest as so many men are working in the USA.

Mexicans received special allowances under United States immigration law due to the importance of Mexican labor in the United States economy. One example of these allowances is the Immigration Act of 1917. Under this act, all potential immigrants would have to pass a literacy test and pay a head tax. At the request of growers in the southwest who depended on farm labor from Mexico, the Secretary of Labor waived those requirements for Mexican immigrants. The groups interested in the availability of inexpensive labor ensured that the immigration laws in place throughout the early 20th century did not adversely affect the movement of Mexican migrants, in spite of calls on the part of some of the southern states’ congressmen to put an end to the open border policies.

The current group of illegal immigrants is largely stable, more likely to be women and children, and no longer exclusively employed in farm labor. The "wall" is going to be an ultra expensive fantasy that is going to battle some high profile photos of men sneaking into Arizona illegally. Destroying the border crossing card or the visa system with massive fees, or trying to strongarm the Mexican government is not going to help matters.

I don't have any issue with cutting down on illegal immigration, per se. But I think this wall is a poor way to accomplish that goal.

Quote: kenarman

The difficult problems don't have easy solutions. If you actually try to make everyone happy there are no solutions.

Yes, but that's true of about 95% of all problems government tries to solve. For most, something does get done.

Of course things have been done about immigration, but all the wrong things. Like increasing surveillance and patrols at the border. That's what got you a large, permanent population of "illegal" immigrants with children. This is well documented.

The problem for one side is that people are getting into the country in defiance of the law, such as it is. For the other, it's what to do about absorbing all the people whoa re already in. In this case, both sides are wrong. The problem is the US needs more labor than it can obtain from its population, but the solution, allowing foreigners in to work, is hampered by highly restrictive immigration laws.

The solution seems obvious to me.

Michael Moore
✔
@MMFlint

Pro-Hillary gloaters doing end-zone dance again when still on 50-yd line. U MUST get it in your head TRUMP IS GONNA WIN and act accordingly!
11:37 PM - 26 Sep 2016

When did Moore give up on Hillary.

I know EvenBob will pretend not to read this, but for anyone else who only highlights the online polls that showed Trump as the winner:

Online polls showing Trump won the debate were rigged

From the NY Post, of all places....

Quote: ams288

I know EvenBob will pretend not to read this, but for anyone else who only highlights the online polls that showed Trump as the winner:

Online polls showing Trump won the debate were rigged

From the NY Post, of all places....

So the Trump supporters were organized enough to vote in the polls more than the Hillary supporters. This is now rigging?. So Trump will be right if he loses and says the election was rigged - the Hillary supporters were more organized and voted more.

Quote: kenarman

Quote: ams288

I know EvenBob will pretend not to read this, but for anyone else who only highlights the online polls that showed Trump as the winner:

Online polls showing Trump won the debate were rigged

From the NY Post, of all places....

So the Trump supporters were organized enough to vote in the polls more than the Hillary supporters. This is now rigging?. So Trump will be right if he loses and says the election was rigged - the Hillary supporters were more organized and voted more.

Internet polls and elections have nothing to do with each other
Your logic is a bit convoluted
Internet polls can easily be manipulated.
So your logic is because internet polls can be easily manipulated, this is related to voting in an election????

Quote: Pacomartin

But Trump has made this wall and having Mexico pay for it front and center in his campaign. While closing Gitmo was one of Obama's campaign promises, it didn't exactly define him as a candidate.

I think the wall has defined him to the Democrats but I am not sure that a large percentage of his supporters really care. The hot button for them is more the Muslim/Terrorist side of the immigration problem in my opinion. The wall keeps getting him free PR so he keeps talking about it and saving 100's of millions in advertising expense.

Quote: kenarman

So the Trump supporters were organized enough to vote in the polls more than the Hillary supporters. This is now rigging?. So Trump will be right if he loses and says the election was rigged - the Hillary supporters were more organized and voted more.

How many Trump and Clinton supporters in those online polls were from the United States?

(among things we can't verify)